Army Loading and other questions

[QuiksilverHg]

Hey, just finished my second complete whole world game (as warlord this time) and was taking forever to get good armies together. Since the previous game I had noticed that veterans in army rarely promoted I was trying to get all elites together before I made an army and this was taking forever. Is it worth it to wait for the all elites army to get the best one in the end or should I just make an army out of veterans and hope that they all promote at some point.

Another thing I was having problems with is moving from my continent to another continent. The first game I played I snagged a small portion of unsettled territory for a city or two than used that as my launching point to war and take out the other civs one at a time. Now this last game all the territory was taken up, so I picked on a civ that was getting whomped by everyone else and took two cities on the coast when that civ was already weak. Once I get onto a new continent though I'm never able to get any of my cities up to good production levels.
Maybe it's because the easy diff AIs never build up their cities much, but I could not get them into good production and happy to save my life. I never managed to get any airports onto the new continent, and all of my military units were transported from my original continent. Is there any tricks to kick off production when you get to a new continent?


Mainly I wanted the airport for use of paratroopers. The AI would frequently hit me on cities that I had lightly defended or not defended at all and I was hoping to use paratroopers to get some defense in their quickly. Has anyone had any real success with paratroopers? I'm finding the lack of range on the drop to be prohibitive. Maybe the developers should think of making them 2/9 instead of 4/9 and then allow them to be dropped anywhere on the map as a quick defensive unit.

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[ybbor]

Hey, just finished my second complete whole world game (as warlord this time) and was taking forever to get good armies together. Since the previous game I had noticed that veterans in army rarely promoted I was trying to get all elites together before I made an army and this was taking forever. Is it worth it to wait for the all elites army to get the best one in the end or should I just make an army out of veterans and hope that they all promote at some point.

for the record, only the first unit in an army promotes, and actually filling an army with elites in the long run may not be very effective, as they don't get a chance to create a great leader, it would be a good idea to put only units with an * after the elite (this apears after an elite unit has created an army) it would be a good idea to fill the army up with veterans (although i'm sure a more seasoned player will come and say i'm wrong)

Another thing I was having problems with is moving from my continent to another continent. The first game I played I snagged a small portion of unsettled territory for a city or two than used that as my launching point to war and take out the other civs one at a time. Now this last game all the territory was taken up, so I picked on a civ that was getting whomped by everyone else and took two cities on the coast when that civ was already weak. Once I get onto a new continent though I'm never able to get any of my cities up to good production levels.
Maybe it's because the easy diff AIs never build up their cities much, but I could not get them into good production and happy to save my life. I never managed to get any airports onto the new continent, and all of my military units were transported from my original continent. Is there any tricks to kick off production when you get to a new continent?

this is actually very common, there are two options 1) switch to communism and have all cities have the same level of corruption, or 2) build a forbidden palace (reccomended) what version do you have? if you have C3C unpatched it would actually be a bad idea to build the forbidden palace as it actually increases corruption. but don't worry too much, just focus on having most production come out of your 'core' cities that have low corruption

Mainly I wanted the airport for use of paratroopers. The AI would frequently hit me on cities that I had lightly defended or not defended at all and I was hoping to use paratroopers to get some defense in their quickly. Has anyone had any real success with paratroopers? I'm finding the lack of range on the drop to be prohibitive. Maybe the developers should think of making them 2/9 instead of 4/9 and then allow them to be dropped anywhere on the map as a quick defensive unit.

Let me know what you guys think.

actually the best idea for defending defenseless cities if you have ab airport is airlifting units, if you have an airport on the mainland and an airport in the area you want to defend, then take a(i suppose it's technically suppose to be 'an' but that doesn't sound right) unit from your core and airlift it to the new airport, the next turn you can move it. also you can always use the editor to change unit values

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Actually, all units in an Army can promote. It just has to win when twice yellowlined/redlined...
But no leaders, of course.
Well, if you play a MIL Civ, with oodles of Elites, IMHO it is worth it to fill it with only Elites; at least, before the MilAc gives you as many Armies as you want.

 

[QuiksilverHg]

this is actually very common, there are two options 1) switch to communism and have all cities have the same level of corruption, or 2) build a forbidden palace (reccomended) what version do you have? if you have C3C unpatched it would actually be a bad idea to build the forbidden palace as it actually increases corruption. but don't worry too much, just focus on having most production come out of your 'core' cities that have low corruption

actually the best idea for defending defenseless cities if you have ab airport is airlifting units, if you have an airport on the mainland and an airport in the area you want to defend, then take a(i suppose it's technically suppose to be 'an' but that doesn't sound right) unit from your core and airlift it to the new airport, the next turn you can move it. also you can always use the editor to change unit values

I have the civilization complete version which I assume is completely patched since it just came out. The reason I was thinking paratroopers is because I wanted to get the airport on the new continent and then get support to all of the cities on the continent in any given turn instead of just the city with the airport. Also as I was playing the last game I didn't realize about the airlift ability, usually I concentrated on a harbor on the coast so I could get my resources in, maybe from now on I'll just do an airport depending on how many extra shields that would cost.

I assume when you talk about the forbidden palace on the new continent you'd need to burn a leader to get it done in a reasonable amount of time. Usually my cities are so bogged down in corruption that I do the courthouse first, then need a marketplace to keep 'em happy, then a library to move out the borders. But you've given me some good ideas to start from.

 

[ybbor]

well if you have roads (which i would hope you do) and especially railroads (which i would make getting the resources for it a top priority) it's just as easy if not more so to airlift a unit and move it the next turn as to airlift a paratrooper and airdrop it the next turn

also, i belive civcomplete doesn't have the patches, that's the gaming industry for ya

 

[Theoden]

I would suggest putting and elite that has generated a leader in the army and then fill it up with veterans. In the long run I usually get more benefit from having veterans in armies and the elites out and generating more leaders to make more armies. That means I would rather have three 13 hp armies than two 15 hp armies.

An article about armies can be found here

a(i suppose it's technically suppose to be 'an' but that doesn't sound right) unit

using 'a' is correct here as it is pronounciation, not spelling, that determines it, and unit is pronounced 'junit'

 

[ybbor]

I would suggest putting and elite that has generated a leader in the army and then fill it up with veterans. In the long run I usually get more benefit from having veterans in armies and the elites out and generating more leaders to make more armies. That means I would rather have three 13 hp armies than two 15 hp armies.

An article about armies can be found here



using 'a' is correct here as it is pronounciation, not spelling, that determines it, and unit is pronounced 'junit'

yeah i suppose that's why its 'an' hour

 

[BasketCase]

My approach is this: I only really use armies in the late game, because until Riflemen come along, a stack of standard offensive units can get the job done without armies. However, fortified-in-a-city Riflemen--or, far worse, fortified Infantry--are extremely difficult to dislodge. In these cases, an army of cavalry or tanks is ideal, because it has the hit points to stay in the fight and guarantee that the defending unit is going to get killed.

An army of veteran units is enough to do the job, but an army of elites has those extra hit points for those really tough greasy stains that ordinary cleansers can't remove. So at this point in the game I start off by using veteran units to attack enemy forces outside of cities (always lots of those running around), go for lots of promotes and hopefully a leader or two, and load up promoted elites into armies. Especially in the Modern Age when it's MA's against MI's.

 

[LionQ]

... However, fortified-in-a-city Riflemen--or, far worse, fortified Infantry--are extremely difficult to dislodge. ... Especially in the Modern Age when it's MA's against MI's.

I'd implement Bombard Units. Offending in the Industrial Times is indeed hard, because most of the time you have to use Cavalries against Riflemen and Infantries. However, both these defending Units are worthless when they have just 1 or 2 HP's left. You can achieve this by using Bombard Units.

Cannon - and certainly Artillery - can injure the enemy city's defenses immensely. After that, it won't be a hard job for your Cavalries to take over the city - or raze it, if you'd like to.

However, this type of strategy requires planning and time. Your Cavalries will be at the front lines in a few Turns, but your Cannons and Artilleries will take more time to get there. Moreover, these two Units must have an escort in enemy territory. Cavalries should not be used for this, so you'll need Riflemen or Infantries too.

As a result, you can't rush this types of war, but you'll have to carefully plan your operations in order to get a nice tactical and strategical result. If you don't like this and want almost instant results, just rush over the borders with your Cavalry. But if your offensive gets deadlocked and your storm attacks crush against the walls of the enemy, don't say I didn't warn you.

 

[BasketCase]

Tried that method. Got mediocre results. Number one, it takes a pretty big stack of artillery to knock down a well-defended city. Number two, I usually have enough of a tech edge that it's more effective to build three more tanks than ten more artillery guns.

My latest obsession has been building a Military Academy in a high-shield city and having it spend the entire game cranking out armies. The only time I ever lost an army in battle was when the Japanese attacked one of my cities, and I suddenly remembered the army defending that city DID NOT HAVE ANY UNITS IN IT!

 

[Bagatur]

I wouldnt build any armies myself. I rely on leaders and I end up with around 30-40 armies each game(huge maps it takes longer), while producing 4 tanks or 5 cavalries/infantries/rifles in this city, dedicated for armies, will be far more usefull, IMO. I put MilAc in high shield city, bcs I use armies for wonders prebuild, especially if city is capital, where no palace is available for prebuild.

 

[SunZsu]

an overall strategy that has worked very well for me in several Emperor level games is to limit warmongering during the so-called middle game ... after I warmonger during the era of the archer and swordsman, military strategy becomes defensive for me while working on infrastructure and trade .... gold is power, so trade, build markets and banks, etc. .... research should be aimed at Military Tradition (Cavalry & Military Academy) ..... guard frontiers with fortresses/barricades, especially at choke points ... if an AI wants to mess with you, take him on at your border, and counterattack from advantageous terrain, preferrably mountains or fortresses .... you need catapaults/cannons, pikemen/muskets, and a core force of knights/cavalry for this, plus a couple of allies who are geographically positioned so as to cause your would-be tormentators to have to fight on two opposite fronts .... don't go on the offensive into enemy territory unless you can sustain it, either ... and don't worry about researching Nationalism because you will get it from somebody one way or another .... usually I fall severall techs behind, but eventually the AIs become full of themselves and they begin warring with each other .... do what you can to keep them at it i.e. grant Rights of Passage so they can kill each other more efficiently, trade or sell techs to an AI that is at a disadvantage to the other (in other words, stir the pot), smile and kiss a$$, but meanwhile press on with your own research because while they are fighting each other their research pace has slowed .... the biggest coup I usually make is to beat the AIs to Scientific Method and the Darwin Wonder .... that 2 tech jump is pretty awesome as you use it to get to Electronics and build Hoover Dam - even if you don't have Industrialization yet (because you soon will have it)... once you get this tech lead you can pretty much stay one tech ahead by selling and/or trading all the AIs the same older tech while keeping the newer one for a few more turns, and then selling that tech to them a couple of turns just before you have researched the next one ..... this will get a lot of gold which can be used to upgrade military and rush build infrastrucure ..... and along the way you have already built the Military Academy, and that city has only been building Armies (which you do NOT load with units just yet) continuously right up to the time you have discovered Synthetic Fibers which has been the goal of your research ever since you obtained Scientific Method .... and by then you should have 6-8 armies ... then, guess what, it's pay back time! .... load these armies with 4 MAs each (MAs which have been upgraded from tanks which you wisely kept out of frivoulous wars and used the gold you made from selling techs to upgrade them), and now go raise some hell! .... MA armies, esp. with 4 units in them, are devastating on the attack, and should be the only units used to attack cities with population greater than 12 (unless you like watching your troops get slaughtered) .... use armies to make the initial attacks, and save one movement point if possible so can move them to a barracks to get replenished, and finish off damaged enemy units with single MAs, MIs, etc .... always protect armies with Mobile Sams, and support their attacks with arty escorted by Inf/MI .... by this time, too, you should have almost a 2 tech lead, and this makes it a whole lot easier getting Military Alliances in your favor by offering an older tech 1st .... the reason for making any alliance is not so much based on whether or not you need it militarily, but because it keeps that AI from becoming part of an alliance against you - plus it puts you on good relations with that AI even if at some point later you have to kill him