Artillery damage vs land units

[Zaldron]

In v9.1 is it intended that artillery has -50% power vs land units? Because of the way power works this pretty much means that even against rifles and knights it won't do more than 1-2 points of damage. I would expect that if someone lobs artillery into a melee unit formation damage is going to be taken.

It's even more perplexing because my ironclad, from an earlier tech, doesn't have a penalty so where my artillery did 1 pt of damage to a unit the ironclad is bombarding for 6-8 pts of damage.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

I think this was semi-intentional to promote a better unit mix, using archers more for vs units and siege for more vs cities. Of course, this penalty should probably be significantly reduced or eliminated when we hit cannons since those are the only ranged units available.

 

[Zaldron]

I think this was semi-intentional to promote a better unit mix, using archers more for vs units and siege for more vs cities. Of course, this penalty should probably be significantly reduced or eliminated when we hit cannons since those are the only ranged units available.

At that stage of the game the only other "ranged" units are planes, which I don't have access to yet, and ships that obviously can't help me inland.

 

[Thalassicus]

From the early March version 5.0 siege units have +50% vs cities and -50% vs land units. Their primary role is weakening cities, while weakening units is only a secondary role. From the combat roles thread:

I think artillery have been weaker since the earliest versions of the mod in the fall. Artillery were very overpowered in vanilla. With units fortified in front and full-strength artillery barraging from behind, it forms a nearly impregnable wall that's very easy to defeat AIs with. It's still rather easy to advance on an AI with footsoldiers and artillery.

 

[Zaldron]

From the early March version 5.0 siege units have +50% vs cities and -50% vs land units. Their primary role is weakening cities, while weakening units is only a secondary role. From the combat roles thread:

I think artillery have been weaker since the earliest versions of the mod in the fall. Artillery were very overpowered in vanilla. With units fortified in front and full-strength artillery barraging from behind, it forms a nearly impregnable wall that's very easy to defeat AIs with. It's still rather easy to advance on an AI with footsoldiers and artillery.

From my personal observations, weakening units is a *very* secondary purpose (well except against other range where it doesn't take the penalty). A Chu-Ko-Nu will do more damage against an infantry/mech inf than artillery which just feels so strange. I should note that I *do* think artillery was OP in vanilla, but that it's swung too far the other way now. I may as well build inf/mech inf with siege so I have a dual purpose unit.

 

[Thalassicus]

I tested some matchups with these settings:

• Great General on both sides
• 3 promotions on both
• Defender on a forested hill

Average damage of artillery:

• 7 vs Knight
• 5 vs Rifleman
• 3 vs Fortified rifleman

The opponent has significant advantages over the artillery if average damage against knights/rifles reaches as low as 1-2. In equal matchups it's higher. The numbers drop to 2-3 against Infantry, which is appropriate since Infantry are on a higher tech column than Artillery.

 

[Zaldron]

I did some testing:

• Great General on both sides
• 3 promotions on both
• Defender on a forested hill

Average damage of artillery:

• 7 - Knight
• 5 - Rifleman
• 3 - Fortified rifleman

The opponent has significant advantages over the artillery if average damage against knights/rifles reach as low as 1-2.

Ah ha, I bet that's it....I only have a barracks (peaceful game until my gamelong friend DoWed on me because I was too weak) so my artillery is popping out with only one promo and I'm *sure* that the enemy units have 3-4 promotions. So it boils down to, I need more promotions on my artillery - I'll see what I can do!

 

[Thalassicus]

The terrain promotions have a much bigger effect for siege (vs units) than promotions in most situations, due to how the modifiers add. This is the "final" strength of artillery against land units...

No Bonuses:
0 promos 16 = 32 * (1 - .5)

Great General plus:
0 promos 22 = 32 * (1 - .5 + .2)
1 promos 29 = 32 * (1 - .5 + .2 + .2)
2 promos 35 = 32 * (1 - .5 + .2 + .2 + .2)
3 promos 43 = 32 * (1 - .5 + .2 + .2 + .2 + .25)

You can see with just 1 promotion and a General, it's double the strength of a no-bonus situation. Three promotions is 50% stronger than 1 promotion. It's also useful to have at least 1 siege unit with the Volley promotion to take care of fortified defenders. To put this in strategy terms...

• It's important for siege to always fight near a Great General when battling land units.
• If you want to use siege against land units, promote some of them with only terrain bonuses (skipping the city-siege promotion).