I raise a question about a painful oversight. Ships can bombard cities. Artillery cannot return fire to warships. Citadels and bastions can also be passively destroyed. This completely distorts the art of war. Makes warships overpowered. In the long run, this defeats sense of fortifying coastal cities. Any tips where to edit this?
Artillery vs warships.
- Thread starter Vodayo
- Start date
raystuttgart
Civ4Col Modder
That is not true. It can.
If you have Citadels or Bastions your Artillery fortified inside (for more than 1 turn) will bombard enemy Units / Ships at end turn.
That is one of the features of the Mod. It is about 10 years old now.
Nowhere, because the feature already exists. Generally stuff like that is usually DLL programming.
All you need is to fortify your cities with Citadels and Bastions, have fully fortified Artillery (which takes 1 turn) and press end turn.
When an Units (incl. Ships) are then in one of the directly adjacent tiles they will get attacked.
Thanks for mentioning this "painful oversight" which I had already taken care of 10 years ago.
In case it does not work anymore we would now have a bug in the mod.
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raystuttgart
Civ4Col Modder
By the way:
As part of the originally planned "Combat Overhaul" I intended to redo the way artillery works completely.
(No idea if and when this will ever be implemented though.)
- Artillery would use a "true ranged plot damage", meaning it could bombard adjacent Plots, without moving into them.
- Instead of doing normal attack to destroy a single Unit, it would do (some) Plot damage to all Units on the Plot.
So Artillery would not be a "normal attacking" Unit anymore, but a Unit to bombard Stacks / fortified Cities (without moving on the Plot).
But If you would try to attack e.g. a Cavalry then with your Artillery directly by moving on the Plot, you would get sacked.
In the course of this I would also have allowed it to bombard Water Plots, thus damaging also Ships and Units they carry.
It would have required several artillery salvos to completely sink a ship, still some current cheesy tactics would have become a bit more risky.
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But as I said, that is long term planning and who knows what will actually be done in the end.
Currently development of the mod is not focussed on new content.
As part of the originally planned "Combat Overhaul" I intended to redo the way artillery works completely.
(No idea if and when this will ever be implemented though.)
- Artillery would use a "true ranged plot damage", meaning it could bombard adjacent Plots, without moving into them.
- Instead of doing normal attack to destroy a single Unit, it would do (some) Plot damage to all Units on the Plot.
So Artillery would not be a "normal attacking" Unit anymore, but a Unit to bombard Stacks / fortified Cities (without moving on the Plot).
But If you would try to attack e.g. a Cavalry then with your Artillery directly by moving on the Plot, you would get sacked.
In the course of this I would also have allowed it to bombard Water Plots, thus damaging also Ships and Units they carry.
It would have required several artillery salvos to completely sink a ship, still some current cheesy tactics would have become a bit more risky.
----
But as I said, that is long term planning and who knows what will actually be done in the end.
Currently development of the mod is not focussed on new content.
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raystuttgart
Civ4Col Modder
General comment:
There is very little in this mod that has not been considered or discussed.
This mod (and the concepts we have for it) are 15 years old ... a lot of time to have ideas.
If something is not implemented, then it is usually not because nobody had the idea yet.
It is because nobody skilled enough found time and motivation to invest the required effort to implement it.
There is a lack of skilled and dedicated modders ... not a lack of ideas.
Of course sometimes ideas were simply rejected after discussion for gameplay or technical reasons.
And sometimes features are even already there ... but players just do not know.
I am quite often surprised about how many features the mod has that people do not know about.
There is very little in this mod that has not been considered or discussed.
This mod (and the concepts we have for it) are 15 years old ... a lot of time to have ideas.
If something is not implemented, then it is usually not because nobody had the idea yet.
It is because nobody skilled enough found time and motivation to invest the required effort to implement it.
There is a lack of skilled and dedicated modders ... not a lack of ideas.
Of course sometimes ideas were simply rejected after discussion for gameplay or technical reasons.
And sometimes features are even already there ... but players just do not know.
I am quite often surprised about how many features the mod has that people do not know about.
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Yea, I totally agree.
I have also a lot of ideas how the graphical aspect of artillery units can be improved. Would be great then to combine both.
The artillery is one of the units with a huge potential of improvement - also due to the fact that we have different professions (light and heavy artillery could have different uses). E.g. light artillery could be a more defensive unit for forts and cities and maybe could have a malus for ranged attack and a bonus for close attack (due to use of cartridges). This would bring more variety to the artilley units.
However, just one idea to improve these professions
I have also a lot of ideas how the graphical aspect of artillery units can be improved. Would be great then to combine both.
The artillery is one of the units with a huge potential of improvement - also due to the fact that we have different professions (light and heavy artillery could have different uses). E.g. light artillery could be a more defensive unit for forts and cities and maybe could have a malus for ranged attack and a bonus for close attack (due to use of cartridges). This would bring more variety to the artilley units.
However, just one idea to improve these professions
Thank for this information. If I understand correctly... Its possible to bombard a city and avoid the response by moving away from it in the same move (hit and run a slow sailing warship)?
raystuttgart
Civ4Col Modder
No, that is not possible as using "bombard" will end turn action / set movement points to 0 for the Unit.
So the Ship will not be able to move out of range afterwards - as it will not have any movement points left.
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So using bombard on heavily fortified Cities may have bad consequences for a Ship.
Still there is no direct counter-attack on bombard - as it attacks a Plot / City and not a Unit.
Generally however turtling in a City is not necessarily easy - which is intended.
Playing offensive or doing counter attacks is more interesting anyways.
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Summary:
The feature generally works and offers some strategy against Warhips (or other Artillery) bombarding City Defenses.
But it requires to have stationed Artillery that is fortified for more than 1 turn - meaning it is not actively used that turn.
But if you like to program something more interesting and fun, give it a try.
As I said, it is not that we lack ideas ... we lack modders to implement such stuff.
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Are you sure about it? Watch this video:
Colonization 2023-10-01 19-30-50
Watch "Colonization 2023-10-01 19-30-50" on Streamable.
This idea is good. No changes needed here. As long as it works. Unfortunately it not work. Or maybe I'm doing something wrong?
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Mr. ZorG
WTP team member
The site on the link does not open for me, but I assume that the video shows how the ship can move after bombarding.
raystuttgart
Civ4Col Modder
Ok, then this should be changed.
I will create a ticket for it.
Bombard should behave like an attack.
So it should also set the movement points to 0.
It is an easy fix, but I am currently hardly modding.
(And actually the version I mod is currently not the "develop" branch.)
Ticket is here:
Bombard action should set Movement Points to 0, just like an attack. · Issue #892 · We-the-People-civ4col-mod/Mod
As discussed in this thread, it is currently possible to do "hit and run" bombarding against fortified Cities by e.g. Ships. It seems to be quite an exploit ... which most likely only Human player ...
github.com
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raystuttgart
Civ4Col Modder
It is implemented now in branch "Small_Features" and will later be merged back to "develop".
To be published probably with WTP 4.1.
Since when does attacking set movement points to 0? It uses up movement points but not always all of the remaining ones.
There are even multiple promotions that permit multiple attacks per turn. Many of those promotions are gated behind great general or admiral and inherited from vanilla though. Attacking and then backing off with cavalry is important to deal with native doomstacks.
