Asians in the Nazi-era German army!?

[Riesstiu IV]

I was just wondering as to why and how Asians got into the wermacht. I wouldn't have thought that the Germans would have allowed "non-Aryans" into their army?

Turkmenistan volunteers...

Turkmenistan volunteers...

Turkestan volunteer...

A mongolian soldier to the left.

A Sikh soldier.

Japanese officer.

 

[privatehudson]

I do know that the Wermacht estimated in 1943 that something like 12% of their forces in Russia were of "russian" descent, and that these derived from many different sources, usually from people's opposed to communism or from different ethnic backgrounds. The sikhs I seem to recall were volunteers from troops captured in Africa serving with the British Army.

Don't forget that the SS also included a number of divisions derived from non-aryan sources like Russian, Latvian, Estonian, Russian, Hungarian and many other nationalities.

 

[Riesstiu IV]

Originally posted by privatehudson
The sikhs I seem to recall were volunteers from troops captured in Africa serving with the British Army.

Actually, I heard the Hitler was helping raise an army of Indian rebels so they could invade India and push back the British, but the plan became impossible after the defeat in North Africa. Most of the Sikh soldiers were sent to the Russian front.

 

[Mescalhead]

I believe when it came to other races, the 3rd Reich was merely concerned with those in the intended Leibensraum, which were Slavs, Jews, and Romas.

 

[Riesstiu IV]

Or perhaps this is a Nazi version of Affirmative Action.

 

[privatehudson]

Actually, I heard the Hitler was helping raise an army of Indian rebels so they could invade India and push back the British, but the plan became impossible after the defeat in North Africa. Most of the Sikh soldiers were sent to the Russian front.

Where did they come from then if not prisoners of war?

 

[Riesstiu IV]

Originally posted by privatehudson


Where did they come from then if not prisoners of war?

I'm not disagreeing with you, I was just trying to relate Hitler's plan for an Indian wermacht in order to invade India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. It never really got very far though...

 

[privatehudson]

Oh, it was the way you said "actually", made me think you were correcting something I said. Another interesting bunch is the British Legion of St George who the SS recruited from POW camps. Some claims place their numbers in the hundreds, but this was based on faulty figures, that was the number of POWs who expressed an interest, mainly under orders from their camp leaders in order to see what it was about. IIRC their number never rose above 2 dozen and never saw combat together. Ok so they're not asian, but certainly unusual

Somewhere around I had a set of books on the Waffen SS that had pictures of one of the soldiers from the legion and a blown-up picture of the shoulder badge they wore, I could dig it out if you wanted it added to the thread as a slightly off topic thing?

 

[Riesstiu IV]

Originally posted by privatehudson
Oh, it was the way you said "actually", made me think you were correcting something I said.

Yeah, sorry about that.

Originally posted by privatehudson
I could dig it out if you wanted it added to the thread as a slightly off topic thing?

That would be intersting to see, if it's not too much trouble. Looking back, I should have named this thread "non-Germans in the Nazi-era German army"... Oh well.

 

[privatehudson]

Shouldn't be too much trouble, I can scan them in work and then I'll try and add them sometime in the next day or so. I'll try and summarise the information the book had here too for you

A bit of trivia though was that recently a wargames magazine included an article un-edited on the legion which contained the high figure for their numbers and claimed that they served on the eastern front for some time before being destroyed in Berlin. Alarm bells rang though, especially when the same article claimed the Waffen SS were hard done by in history and that the massacres attributed to it were solely done by French SS. There was a few other mightily dubious things, but it was soon worked out that the author was basically re-writing the history of the legion to make them and by connection the Waffen SS into some sort of pan-european freedom movement that history treats badly, or in other words, a revisionist* argument. To it's credit the magazine also published soon after a rebuttal and appology for publishing the article uncheked

*Revisionist history tends to be the type that deny the holocaust happened, or play down the numbers in order to argue that the West were fighting the wrong country in WWII and Germany/Hitler were in reality quite honourable people who defeat made necessary to turn them into evil.

 

[Esckey]

All I know is that plenty of Dutch men joined the SS probably with no trouble too. Oh and the Nazi's encourged German-Scandinavian relationships amoungst their soilders that were stationed there

 

[privatehudson]

In the Waffen SS there was Nederland and Wallonien divisions which were Dutch and Belgian respectively. Viking and Nordland made up two divisions of Scandanavian descent. There may have been other formations, but I don't think they rose to divisional level.

 

[aaminion00]

Of course the nazis had non-aryan divisions from a number of countries, for various reasons. Getting the support of a peoples for example.

 

[joespaniel]

After the defeats at Moscow, Stalingrad and Kursk the Germans had a severe manpower shortage. The pressed anyone they could into military service (except Jews of course).

I've read stories of Allied soldiers who were shocked on D-Day to find Asiatics manning the coastal defenses. They were former Soviet soldiers captured and forced to fight for Germany.

 

[Esckey]

Once Holland fell people volunteered to join the German Army. It's not like the Germans waited until they were losing the war before they started to let non-Germans in either

 

[Dr Corbett]

Many Germans had brown hair, for example. If they only allowed Aryans into their army, they'd be absolutely crushed under the weight of numbers.

 

[privatehudson]

Also files captured after the war from the Wermacht Archives documented that a number of high ranking officers were officially "pardonned" for their Jewish ancestry.

Edit: Sorry, was busy in work today, will try tommorow for you

 

[Dr. Dr. Doktor]

Field Marshall Erich von Manstein and Air Marshall Erhard Milch were Jews.

Marshall Göring, when confronted with this, said 'I decide who is a Jew and who is not'.

Also an exclusively muslim SS divison were formed from Albanian volunteers. The Skanderbeg Division.

 

[Riesstiu IV]

Originally posted by Dr. Dr. Doktor
Field Marshall Erich von Manstein and Air Marshall Erhard Milch were Jews.

Marshall Göring, when confronted with this, said 'I decide who is a Jew and who is not'.

Also an exclusively muslim SS divison were formed from Albanian volunteers. The Skanderbeg Division.

Indeed, here are some pictures of that division...

 

[privatehudson]

Thought this list might be Useful:

1st SS-panzer Division leibstandarte "Adolf Hitler"
2nd SS-panzer Division "Das Reich"
3rd SS-panzer Division "Totenkopf"
4th SS-Panzergrenadier-Division "Polizei"
5th SS-panzer Division "Wiking" (Scandanavians)
6th SS-Gebirgs Division "Nord" (Scandanavians and Germans)
7th SS-Freiwilligen-Gebirgs Division "Prinz Eugen" (Rumanians, Hungarians and Yugoslavians)
8th SS-kavallerie Division "Florian geyer"
9thSS-panzer Division "Hohenstaufen"
10th SS-panzer Division "Frundsberg"
11thSS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Division "Nordland" (Scandanavians and Dutch)
12th SS-panzer Division "Hitlerjugend"
13th Waffen-Gebirgs Division der SS "Handschar" (kroatische nr.1) (Bosnian Muslims)
14th Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS (ukranische nr 1) (Galicians)
15th Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS (lettische nr 1) (Latvians)
16th SS-Panzergrenadier Division "Reichsführer SS"
17th SS-Panzergrenadier Division "Götz von Berlichingen"
18th SS- Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Division "Horst Wessel"
19th Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS ( lettische nr 2) (Latvians)
20th Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS (estnishce nr 1) (Estonians)
21st Waffen-Gebirgs Division der SS "Skanderbeg" (Albanians as noted)
22nd Freiwilligen-kavallerie Division der SS "Maria Theresa" (Hungarians)
23rdWaffen-Gebirgs Division der SS "Nederland" (Dutch)
24th SS-Gebirgs Division "Karstjäger" (Austrians and Yugoslavians)
25th Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS ( ungarische nr 1) "Hunyadi" (Hungarians)
26th Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS ( ungarische nr 2) "Hungaria" (Hungarians)
27th SS- Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Division "Langemarck" (Flemish, Dutch and Belgians)
28th SS- Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Division "Wallonien" (Belgians)
29th Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS ( italianische nr 1) (Italians)
30th Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS (weiss ruthenische nr 1) (Mixed bag of Russians, Byelorussians, Poles, Ukrainians, Tartars and Armenians and German police!)
31st SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier Division (Possibly Hungarians)
32nd SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier Division "30 januar"
33rd Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS "Charlemagne" (French)
34th Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS "Landstorm Nederland" (Dutch)
35th SS-Polizei Grenadier Division
36th Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS "Dirlewanger"
37th SS-Freiwilligen-Kavallerie Division "Lutzow" (some Hungarians, mostly from other divisions broken in combat)
38th SS Panzergrenadier Division "Nibelungen"

Some points of interest:

Some formation numbers changed their divisional titles during the war causing some confusion at times in research. Most of these formations were not "divisions" in size, just name and many were formed quickly during the final few months of the war. Many of the foreign formations were used for anti-partisan operations rather than front line combat, but by 1944 they were mostly thrown into the front and were swallowed up by the russian juggernaut.

Oh and a link on the British Free Corps (I called them Legion of St George, but they went under a few names) for you

http://www.wssob.com/000kpsbri.html

A glance at the book I have shows a photograph of the insignia, a picture of Amery after capture, a picture of unkown members relaxing in uniform and finally a picture of the indentity card and leaflets given to members