Aspyr Announces Civ3 Complete & Civ4

[Nicci]

not sure why everybody is arguing with beamup bout this. he's right after all. don't complain about civ complete after you bought it and it was clear there would be no editor.

 

[MAS]

OH, we are falling in a meta discussion.

Beamup is right in his economics yes. Call me naive, but I think Blue Monkey knows.

Now the big question: how does that lead to concluding the complaints are unjustyfied?

 

[JoAT]

I still don't have to be happy at getting less than people that prefer to use a PC.

If you’ve been a Mac gamer for a while, you know what way the wind blows. Don’t hate the player (Aspyr), hate the game (a game publishing industry that, overall, sees the Mac as not worth an effort.)

 

[AlanH]

Oh dear! I go away for a couple of days to visit my new week-old grandson and the sky falls!

Different players have different priorities. One of the joys of Civ3 is its wide range of appeal. There's no single way to enjoy it, and those who like editing are entitled to air their views. So please let's avoid personal attacks, and keep the discussion on a MacCiv-ilized level

With respect to Civ3, we are where we are. Personally, I'm still not over the surprise of seeing a C3C for Mac at all, and it will probably be enough incentive for me to defer a Civ4-compatible Mac upgrade. I wouldn't discount the possibility of some kind of editor appearing now that C3C is here, but with Civ4 just around the corner I wonder how many users such a product would attract, and for how long? Also, while a start position placement editor might satisfy one or two players, it wouldn't address most of the requirements, for more extensive editing.

It seems to me that the rants are directed mainly at Firaxis, and possibly at MacSoft, for decisions they took years ago, when there were huge uncertainties about the future the Mac games market and even of Mac OS itself. The fact that Aspyr are now making such positive efforts to get into the Civ3-Civ4 market speaks volumes for the different environment in which they are now making business decisions. Maybe I'm a just cock-eyed optimist, but I feel sure they've already made a decision to include the WorldBuilder in Civ4 for Mac.

 

[Nicci]

Now the big question: how does that lead to concluding the complaints are unjustyfied?

like alan i was surprised the game made it to the mac-platform at all. some state that they don't have to settle for anything less the PC-players have, but that plain stupid. the mac platform is not a player in the game industry. i'm even wondering how many civ complete contributed to the company porting it financially speaking. i wouldn't be surprised if they didn't make a buck.
and about complaning about the missing editor: why buy civ complete if u allready know there is no editor? if it is such a big a deal, leave the game alone. it would be nice to have an editor, and i can see why some people put the question to Aspyr to include one, but with Civ 4 around the corner: why bother. there is a difference between 'complaining' and 'asking'.

 

[Beamup]

how does that lead to concluding the complaints are unjustyfied?

Depends on what you mean by unjustified, I suppose. The point I'm trying to make is twofold. First, Aspyr is under no obligation (legal or ethical) to produce the editor. Second, buying the game and complaining about the lack of an editor cannot reasonably be expected to change Aspyr's (or anyone else's) behavior. So complaining and thinking that it will change behavior, or asserting that we've been cheated or whatever, is indeed unjustified.

OTOH, if anybody feels a need to gripe without any expectation of accomplishing anything by doing so, knock yourself out. Just don't delude yourself into thinking it'll get you an editor.

 

[MAS]

like alan i was surprised the game made it to the mac-platform at all.

So am I, Aspyr certainly made a good first impression in my book.

Depends on what you mean by unjustified, I suppose. ...<snip>... it'll get you an editor.

Good, I suppose there is a certain level of understanding each other then!
I'll leave it at this.

 

[k-a-bob]

it would be nice to have an editor, and i can see why some people put the question to Aspyr to include one, but with Civ 4 around the corner: why bother. there is a difference between 'complaining' and 'asking'.

Holy cow! I went away for the night and found 2 1/2 pages!

After 2 years, I don't think anyone would have expected C3C. But, if one stops and thinks about the development process, adding an editor only delays that even more - making it that much longer before we get CIV. Everything takes time and resources, and when there is a finite amount of said resources (and time), one has to prioritize where those resources are used. They are better placed on CIV.

I also have gone on record in this forum about the full price-ness of C3C, with the spectre of CIV "around the corner" - so it is not like I am a bandwagoner "support the gaming industry" kind of person - I still do not have C3C. (Maybe my birthday). But I guarantee, I will be buying CIV right away, because I won't have any qualms about it.

 

[antaine]

"In the latter case, you wasted your money on something you knew at the time wasn't what you wanted, so you have nobody to blame but yourself"

sorry that I don't have programming experience myself, but from what happened with the PC version it seemed that the update with PTW enabled those dropdowns in the editor. I saw c3c included ptw and conquests, and so believed that it would enable those features of the editor. Did not know that was the case until I'd installed it. And so, no, I would not have bought it had I known that the subsequent software would not enable the player definition dropdowns.

while there are some maps with locations that have been defined floating around out there, I find still alterations that I need to make to them, which i cannot do without the full editor.