Asset file hinting at future and/or cut content

[theadder]

I'm so tired of the anti-American animus pervading these forums.
American history has been sufficiently impactful on the modern world to justify at least three American civs: Colonial America (Exploration), America (Modern), and United States (Fourth Age)
I'd personally prefer more than that (the Republic of Texas & Dixie), but I'm biased (but in the right direction)

Is “Dixie” here the Confederacy?

 

[queenpea]

Is “Dixie” here the Confederacy?

Yes, Dixie refers to the American South, the states below the Mason-Dixon Line which all seceded during the Civil War.

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

Yes, Dixie refers to the American South, the states below the Mason-Dixon Line which all seceded during the Civil War.

Though there's really no precedent for such a short lived state to be included. It lasted one third of the time that the shortest-lived Civ planned for the roster is, which is the specific "republic" used to represent Caribbean Pirate cultures... Even aside from political controversy, its short-lived nature and excessive overlap with America would make it quite the wasted slot.

 

[queenpea]

Though there's really no precedent for such a short lived state to be included. It lasted one third of the time that the shortest-lived Civ planned for the roster is, which is the specific "republic" used to represent Caribbean Pirate cultures... Even aside from political controversy, its short-lived nature and excessive overlap with America would make it quite the wasted slot.

I would never advocate that “Dixie” be included in Civ. The idea is ridiculous and offensive.

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

I would never advocate that “Dixie” be included in Civ. The idea is ridiculous and offensive.

Oh yes, I am aware that is your stance and I fully agree. I was just speaking on the subject in general.

 

[theadder]

Yes, Dixie refers to the American South, the states below the Mason-Dixon Line which all seceded during the Civil War.

I was asking to gauge whether the poster is trying to sugarcoat it.

 

[Count0]

Besides the Ottomans in the middle, this very much sounds like a naval-themed pack.



She will be the most modern leader we have in the series - she passed away in 1994.

Ottomans were very naval. Under Suleiman they dominated the mediterranean for a time. Much later the US' first war was against Ottoman-contracted Mediterranean freeboters. Their conquest of Constantinople was what drove the western Europeans across the Atlantic and around Africa, because suddenly the maritime hub city connecting the Black Sea with the Mediterranean was Muslim-controlled. They needed other shipping routes

 

[queenpea]

I was asking to gauge whether the poster is trying to sugarcoat it.

I can’t speak to their intentions—sorry for explaining.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

One thing I really dislike about the direction civ has taken recently, and sharply leaned into with Civ VII is the idea that a civilization is a political entity, rather than a culture or a people.

Proponents of Dixie have in my experienced argued that Dixie, and also the confederate battle flag, represent more than just the short lived Confederacy. They represent the distinct southern culture and people, and particularly in opposition to the dominant northern culture which usually smothers representation of the south.

I understand it kind of like a more extreme version of northern pride in the UK, and north-south relations.

One of the things I remember so strongly from studying history all the way from school to university is that symbols mean different things to different people. What you think Dixie represents is not the only or correct interpretation. It isn't a dog whistle, it isn't inappropriate. Every culture is valid. There are plenty of ways to bring in a Dixie civilization that do not base it solely or even at all around the Confederacy. Though in my opinion it would be stupid to ignore that part of history and whitewash it, not least because I think the chief reason for it's inclusion would be for people to "reenact" the secession from America in alt history.

The Confederacy itself were included in the American civil war scenario in Civ V too so it's not without precedent.

 

[theadder]

I can’t speak to their intentions—sorry for explaining.

Not really my intent, but I did know.

 

[Luxerne]

We've probably already seen Atomic age Independent Power designs in this livestream, looking back on it. The economic and scientific designs aren't present in the modern age at launch, what with the modern age IP leaders instead being represented with 18th and 19th century fashions, for the most part.

 

[Isca Dumnoniorum]

We've probably already seen Atomic age Independent Power designs in this livestream, looking back on it. The economic and scientific designs aren't present in the modern age at launch, what with the modern age IP leaders instead being represented with 18th and 19th century fashions, for the most part.

Good catch!

 

[Ryansinbela]

I never even noticed that

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm so tired of the anti-American animus pervading these forums.
American history has been sufficiently impactful on the modern world to justify at least three American civs: Colonial America (Exploration), America (Modern), and United States (Fourth Age)
I'd personally prefer more than that (the Republic of Texas & Dixie), but I'm biased (but in the right direction)

I wouldn't call myself anti-American, but even this is too much.
I could see the argument for a Colonial America if it was going to be in Modern, and we'd get a proper America in a hypothetical fourth Atomic Age. But the way the civs are designed now I don't see the need for either.
I'll compromise and take the Republic of Texas because I'm biased, but I'd rather the other one not see the light of day.

 

[Menocchio]

One thing I really dislike about the direction civ has taken recently, and sharply leaned into with Civ VII is the idea that a civilization is a political entity, rather than a culture or a people.

Proponents of Dixie have in my experienced argued that Dixie, and also the confederate battle flag, represent more than just the short lived Confederacy. They represent the distinct southern culture and people, and particularly in opposition to the dominant northern culture which usually smothers representation of the south.

I understand it kind of like a more extreme version of northern pride in the UK, and north-south relations.

One of the things I remember so strongly from studying history all the way from school to university is that symbols mean different things to different people. What you think Dixie represents is not the only or correct interpretation. It isn't a dog whistle, it isn't inappropriate. Every culture is valid. There are plenty of ways to bring in a Dixie civilization that do not base it solely or even at all around the Confederacy. Though in my opinion it would be stupid to ignore that part of history and whitewash it, not least because I think the chief reason for it's inclusion would be for people to "reenact" the secession from America in alt history.

The Confederacy itself were included in the American civil war scenario in Civ V too so it's not without precedent.

The problem here is—even beyond material and political culture—"Southern culture" was more or less invented in the postbellum period as a justification for segregation in the form of an idealised representation of a largely nonexistent past. Much like the similarly-invented nature of "frontier culture" in the West and North, it was a post-facto reaction to modernity: urbanisation, immigration, and the collapsing of social boundaries of race and gender among the middle- and working-classes. If you want to read in-depth about this kind of thing, a couple of great books are Making Whiteness: The Culture of Segregation in the South by Grace Hale, and Nature's Metropolis: Chicago and the Great West by William Cronon.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Many people replied to me trying to argue that Ottomans were very naval-oriented. I would say that the Ottomans were as naval-oriented as Achaemenid Persia or Romans.

Owning a large navy or a corsair fleet does not necessarily equal maritime; it just means that this empire is very good at mobilizing its naval-capable imperial constituents. The Persian navy was drawn from the Phoenicians, Ionian Greeks, Cypriots, and Egyptians; the Romans had socii navales which were Greeks; and the Ottoman corsiar fleet was full of English, Dutch, Spanish, and Berber leaders, and their most outstanding admirals were either half-Greek or Croatian.

Saying the Barbary Corsair fleet is emblematic of the Ottomans is not unlike saying that the Cossack cavalry is emblematic of Russia, which is not necessarily a "wrong" description but a relatively questionable and ineffective one.

 

[moysturfurmer]

Idk, I mean why stop at Colonial America in Exploration? You can fudge the numbers just a little more and do “Plymouth Rock” as a civ in Antiquity. Then if they ever add a Neolithic Age maybe they can do like a “The Collective Shipmates of the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria” (CSoNPSM) too. I think America is too important of a country not to include in all 3 ages (speaking objectively; I am American but I graduated high school and got a B in AP American History)

 

[ehecatzin]

exploration America really is stretching it too far

 

[Xefjord]

Said as an American from the Ozarks (a very patriotic place!) I do not want an Exploration America at all.
Even the Pirate Republic is a bit problematic when it comes to the timeline, but an Exploration America especially so.
I still wish that Spain would have been named Castile as well.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Many people replied to me trying to argue that Ottomans were very naval-oriented. I would say that the Ottomans were as naval-oriented as Achaemenid Persia or Romans.

Owning a large navy or a corsair fleet does not necessarily equal maritime; it just means that this empire is very good at mobilizing its naval-capable imperial constituents. The Persian navy was drawn from the Phoenicians, Ionian Greeks, Cypriots, and Egyptians; the Romans had socii navales which were Greeks; and the Ottoman corsiar fleet was full of English, Dutch, Spanish, and Berber leaders, and their most outstanding admirals were either half-Greek or Croatian.

Saying the Barbary Corsair fleet is emblematic of the Ottomans is not unlike saying that the Cossack cavalry is emblematic of Russia, which is not necessarily a "wrong" description but a relatively questionable and ineffective one.

I don't know about being strictly naval, but they could fit the secondary theme of piracy. Just by association the Barbary Corsairs are second to the Carribean when people think of piracy, and the corsairs were the greatest threat when they were under the Ottomans. It's possible that unique Corsair Great People could even be the civilian unit.