AT&T hearts NSA, DOJ Will Assert Military and State Secrets Privilege

[ChrTh]

One other thing, (God I hate taking adults to constitution school)

but the executive branch, (the NSA is part of this) enforces laws, it doesn't make them.

(remember that balance of powers thing) so if the executive wants to do something, they can get congress to pass the law to allow them to do it (remember the legislative branch?)

They can't just make deals with AT&T, and then bypass the judicial (that pesky third branch in the balance of powers) by declaring state and military secrets.

I'm not disagreeing with you--you're right in theory. But wasn't the most recent wiretapping brouhaha because the President used an Executive Order to circumvent the legislative body? Correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't follow it too closely.

 

[Neomega]

I'm not disagreeing with you--you're right in theory. But wasn't the most recent wiretapping brouhaha because the President used an Executive Order to circumvent the legislative body? Correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't follow it too closely.

he's trying to claim an executive order, but it still is a brew ha-ha, and if the democrats regain the house, it may become enough of a brew-haha to impeach. But that was only a small scale wiretapping program, this router in the AT&T building is built to screen millions of calls, foreign and domestic.

If the EFF can expose that it is being used for what it obviously was set up to be used for, you can bet your ass the Bush administration is in a level of trouble unheard of in American history.

 

[usarmy18]

Yup, your story about how you and your friend Will McKnight drove a ****** out of Indiana. That and the way you like to use the word ****** and spic in your posts. Even your recent posts.

*laughs*

I've used those two phrases one time since I've returned to CFC..just once. Also, about my little story. If you want to know what really happened then this is what happened:

It was the last day of school, me and my friends were in P.E. and Anthony Richardson, the N-word that you just love to use in YOUR posts, kept calling us crackers and hicks and dumb hillbillies and he had all year long. So we got pissed off and got in a circle around him and started shoving him and punching him and calling him the big bad N-word. Needless to say, because of ******** laws, we all got kicked out while he didn't get anything because there is racial prejudice still in America but now its reversed. A black man can call a white man anything but if a white man calls a black man the N-word, then it's suddenly racial discrimination.

Now, Neomega, why don't you and all your liberal buddies go argue for my rights. Oh wait. Liberals only do it when it benifits themselves or any political party they support.

Sure does. Also says we have the right from search and seizure, but you'll throw that awaay so readily. Prepare to be searched and seized when those liberal whackos decide to outlaw the polished pistol grip - flashlight combo on your m4. (thats just a Washington state law, you can have one or the other, but not both)

You see, you give your rights up gleefully now, thinking Bush will always be in power, and those in power will always be your friends. But in this country, things never are that way. Eventually, your enemies will be in power, and all your brash statements you made so confidently will come back to haunt you.

I'm not giving up any of my rights gleefully right now. I fail to see how the government wanting to listen in on suspected terrorists is giving up any of my rights. I'm not a suspected terrorist and I never will be. sorry, but I love my country. Also, any American President wouldn't be my "enemy", they'd be my commander-in-chief, Liberal or Conservative, Gay or Straight, Man or woman. I can accept that, while it seems that you can't accept having a conservative in office, which is fine by me. If you want to be bitter about it then kudos buddy.

P.S. I'm GLEEFULLY waiting for that Liberal President and Congress. ANY DAY NOW!!

 

[ChrTh]

he's trying to claim an executive order, but it still is a brew ha-ha, and if the democrats regain the house, it may become enough of a brew-haha to impeach.

I don't think the Democrats are that stupid. They saw how the Republicans silly impeachment attempt against Clinton backfired. If they try to impeach Bush, they're basically handing the 2008 election to the Republicans.

 

[Neomega]

Now, Neomega, why don't you and all your liberal buddies go argue for my rights. Oh wait. Liberals only do it when it benifits themselves or any political party they support.

I am not a liberal, I am a civil libertarian, and I argue against any erosion of the bill of rights.

I'm not giving up any of my rights gleefully right now. I fail to see how the government wanting to listen in on suspected terrorists is giving up any of my rights.

It's not just suspected terrorists, it's any calls coming into the AT&T San Fransisco switchboard. Of course I gave you the links to read, so you should have known that already... read before you post.

P.S. I'm GLEEFULLY waiting for that Liberal President and Congress. ANY DAY NOW!!

Sure you are. It's obvious you love liberals.

 

[CartesianFart]

Well, there was the Florida and Portland, OR professors, who were later released due to lack of evidence.

There were the two women thrown out of the state of the Union and charged for wearing t-shirts with political slogans, (allthough later the charges were dropped)

I never really thought that Sheehan was reasonably sane.Her argument is that we should not commit our troops in Iraq due to the tragic loss of her son,who happen to volunteer for his services.I am sorry but the woman is being manipulated.This is a case of a greif-sicken woman who think the Iraq war is somewhat of the Vietnam war.

Jerry Doyle
http://ds.columbuslawlib.org:8080/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-1704/ca1.doc
or
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache...lumbus+School+Board"&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=7

I am aware of this case due to the fact that i reside in Ohio and have been following this case from the newspaper which heavily covers it.What do i think of this........trivial.

I do think it is appalling of our history of persecution and wiretapping of MLK and such organization that wanted to end segregation to name a few,but when you say of Valerie Plame and others,i find it ludricrous by comparison of just causes such as MLK have done.

I think you are stuck on the idea that the constitution was written for a time, and not written based on the innante nature of man and power. And written on the premise government is a necessary evil.

I am aware of that we as the people should always be aware of the possibility of abuse of power,but i am afraid that some of your examples(such as the Valerie Plame or cindy sheehan case or the case in Ohio) is not sound.

I am so gonna laugh in your face when you start *****ing about the liberal violating your rights when they take back over the white house and congress. I'll just laugh and bring all this junk back up.

Calm down,and to let you know that i was in favor of Howard Dean on the democratic primary since i thought that he had something going there,of course the media killed his image,which i am confuse at this point on how can Americans by only choosing a nominee for presidency base on image when it is the sell issues and political philosophy is what is really important This is why i am not in favor of most of my fellow countryman since they demostrate ignorance and the willingness to be enfeebled by politicians and the media,that is why i am sometimes percieved as some kind of sychophant or favor authoritarian policies.I am not a fundie.

edited:replaced plame for sheehan in the first paragraph and added sheehan in the fourth paragraph.

 

[ChrTh]

^^I think you're confusing Valerie Plame with Cindy Sheehan. Valerie Plame was the secret CIA agent working at the CIA.

 

[CartesianFart]

^^I think you're confusing Valerie Plame with Cindy Sheehan. Valerie Plame was the secret CIA agent working at the CIA.

****,now i got really edit this debate.thanks alot ,neo

 

[usarmy18]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neomega
Well, there was the Florida and Portland, OR professors, who were later released due to lack of evidence.

There were the two women thrown out of the state of the Union and charged for wearing t-shirts with political slogans, (allthough later the charges were dropped)


I never really thought that Valerie Plame was reasonably sane.Her argument is that we should not commit our troops in Iraq due to the tragic loss of her son,who happen to volunteer for his services.I am sorry but the woman is being manipulated.This is a case of a greif-sicken woman who think the Iraq war is somewhat of the Vietnam war.

You're thinking of Cindy Sheehan, but you're right. She IS being played and it IS pretty sickening.

 

[Neomega]

I never really thought that Valerie Plame was reasonably sane.Her argument is that we should not commit our troops in Iraq due to the tragic loss of her son,who happen to volunteer for his services.I am sorry but the woman is being manipulated.This is a case of a greif-sicken woman who think the Iraq war is somewhat of the Vietnam war.

I think you are thinking of Sheehan, (one of the women tossed out and charged). Plame was the CIA agent whose cover was blown.

I am aware of this case due to the fact that i reside in Ohio and have been following this case from the newspaper which heavily covers it.What do i think of this........trivial.

Not trivial to him, I am sure.

calm down...

Sorry, I am a constitutional fundamentalist. You have me pegged. I don't like it oen bit when anyone tries to chip just another little piece off of the bill of rights, because they have been chipping since 1797 with the Alien and Sedition acts.

 

[MobBoss]

I mean hope you aren't an activist in a party opposite to the one in power in 5 years.

I sincerely hope this is the meds talking and not something you really take seriously.

I mean we are in America, and in America, you are allowed to talk on the phone without the fear of some government official listening in. That's for the Soviets.

Clue to you. I still talk on the phone without fear of the government. Stop being so paranoid.

I mean Nixon would be happy to know that now he could just have the NSA tap his opponents calls from a San Fransisco skyscraper, instead of trying to get thieves to break into watergate to steal records and fix wiretaps. Yes, Nixon was not a crook, he was a trendsetter.

Catchy, but hardly truthful.

 

[ChrTh]

Sorry, I am a constitutional fundamentalist. You have me pegged. I don't like it oen bit when anyone tries to chip just another little piece off of the bill of rights, because they have been chipping since 1997 with the Alien and Sedition acts.

They've been chipping off the Constitution for decades. What's happened recently is just the tip of the iceberg. From my perspective, this is a non-issue because so much has already been taken.

 

[Neomega]

They've been chipping off the Constitution for decades. What's happened recently is just the tip of the iceberg. From my perspective, this is a non-issue because so much has already been taken.

oops, I meant 1797.

 

[ChrTh]

oops, I meant 1797.

Ok, that's more like it

 

[ainwood]

Moderator Action: Closed, until I have time to clean it up.