Atheist mod?

[Tahuti]

The problem maybe solved if we'd rename Free Religion to Secularism (So it simply represents that the government doesnt support any religion), its easy, and the result is realistic!

 

[ChrTh]

How historically realistic is this, though? I mean, I can't think of any major civilization in history that was predominantly atheist. I know the Soviet Union tried to force atheism on its people, but that didn't work very well.

That being said: Atheism DOES exist in the game. Any city that doesn't have a religion is for all intents and purposes an atheist one. Paganism is a civic, not a religion.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, "Enforced Secularism" (available with Communism) a la the Soviet Union would be an interesting Civic. No bonuses from Temples etc., -1 Happiness per Religion in City ... benefits would be? Science increase? Additional unit support? Not sure, actually, if there's enough positives to offset the negatives.

 

[Wyz_sub10]

Atheists can be religious or spiritual. There is no one, single definition for atheism and its flock.

If atheism is a religion, then "not collecting stamps" is a hobby.

Atheists aren't religious in any sense, or they'd be theists. 'Spiritual' is a bit of a nebulous term - I suppose it depends on what you mean by this. As mentioned, Buddhism qualifies as atheistic but spriritual.

Really, if you are going for an atheist 'religion' it should be secular humanism. Secular humanism is more the belief in the supremacy of reason rather than the existence or non-existence of religion.

I would have liked to see something like that in the game. It's best modeled so far by the freedom of religion civic.

I agree wholeheartedly. But I would quibble that the foundation of secular humanism isn't the belief in the supremacy of reason, but rather the belief in the ultimate accountability and responsibility of humankind.

Isnt religfion just belief in something superior? Thus Ahteist would be believers In science, insted of a god

A religion need not hold to something "superior", although most do. But there is no mandatory connection between atheism and science. There is a correlation, to be sure, but one does not demand the other.

Atheism is an absence of belief in a god or gods. Nothing more.

That's why I agree that Secular Humanism would be a good choice for a civic that is representative of atheism/agnosticism.

 

[Yzman]

How can you have no state religion in the game and enable theocracy? Which cities would get the benefit?

 

[Winged Cat]

Spiritual
Main Entry: 1spir·i·tu·al
Pronunciation: 'spir-i-ch&-w&l, -i-ch&l, -ich-w&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French & Late Latin; Middle French spirituel, from Late Latin spiritualis, from Latin, of breathing, of wind, from spiritus
1 : of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : INCORPOREAL <man's spiritual needs>
2 a : of or relating to sacred matters <spiritual songs> b : ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal <spiritual authority> <lords spiritual>
3 : concerned with religious values

1. Ah, but what is "spirit"? People can speak of a person's spirit as in morale, or morals, without invoking the supernatural.

2. An atheist can hold things sacred, without believing them to be supernatural. A trust that one will never break, a loved one that one would defend before defending one's own life...these are examples of sacred things, yet again, they do not inherently invoke the supernatural.

3. "As an atheist, I am extremely concerned with the religious values of my worshipping neighbors. I am also concerned with my own values, and some say atheism is a religion, so I guess that makes them religious values." 'Nuff said?

That said...atheism seems to have largely arisen once there were scientific explanations for much of the world. It could be viewed as a modern form of Confucianism, maybe with influences from Buddhism, which arose before these explanations were discovered. (In a slightly alternate history, Confucianism could have been Platoism, for example, and certainly in our world modern logic can trace some elements back to Plato.) So one could, if one wants atheism to be a religion with a holy city (in our world, atheism has no holy city), just assume that Confucianism translates that way in your play of the world. (Civ is, in part, about rewriting the history of the world the way you want it.)

 

[TSteamer]

Turn No-State religion as State Religion and enact Theocracy, that resembles quite good an Atheist government.

I had the AI do this to me the other night. Saladin was on an island all by himself with no religion. I found him late in the game and tried to get a missionary over there. When I tried to convert, I noticed he had Theocracy going and the game it wouldnt let me spread Judaism due to the "non-spread of state religion."

 

[TSteamer]

I actually wondered this myself. Atheism is actually a religon, so it would make sense to include it...especially since it has had a pretty big impact on some societies. And there is no reason it can not co-exist with other religons seeing as it does in the real world. Here's a humourus sugestion (with emphasis on humourus) :

Religon: Atheism
Discovered at: Scientific Method
Temple: Addon to Bank makes it double as temple when religon pressent
Monostary: Addon to University makes it double as monostary when religon present
Cathedral: Mega Mall

Any ideas as to what the special building you get when you use a prophet (what?!?!?!?!?) should be?

Isnt this Commercialism vice Atheism?

 

[Frewfrux]

All I know is that many of my friends are "spiritual-atheists" in that they don't believe in the existance of any dieties at all (fits the mentioned deffinition) but they do still believe in the spirit world (also fits the mentioned definition which really only said that atheism was not beiving in dieties).

Also, isnt Macedonia an "official" (don't know what that's supposed to mean)atheist state? (I remember hearing this because I remember thinking how ironic it was that this was where Mother Teresa was born.) If so, there are contries that do have atheism as the official "belief" so why not in civ IV?

But yeah...modding it would be very hard (my previous suggestions were humourous, NOT serious).

 

[mentat_emre]

i think karl marx would be a unprophet for atheism. it will be realy fun that turning your citizens atheists. For me it must give additional science benefits to an atheist civizilation.(by the way its my first post)

 

[the mormegil]

Modern day atheist nations are represented by free religion well enough IMO. If you mean the sort of police state atheism where worship of gods is banned (like in china/north korea I think?) then I agree with Kaiserguard that a no state religion theocracy fits best.

 

[karadoc]

Since atheism is actually the disbelief of the existence of a deity or deities, and religion is the practice of worshipping a deity or deities, how can atheism be a religion?! Think about it.

Religion is _not_ the practice of worshipping deities. Absolutely not. Why do people keep saying that??
Taoism, Buddhism, Confucianism... they don't have deities.

 

[slothman]

Atheism is an absence of belief in a god or gods.
Nothing more.

Is it the absense of a belief, or a belief in the absense?

The first could translate to something like aliens.
I don't believe nor disbelieve in them.
I don't know.
A belief, either yes or no but not both or neither, doesn't exist.

The second definition would mean, "I know they aren't there."
I believe a moster is not near me.
Or I believe in the nonextence of one near me.

 

[Spock117]

Hey William12123,
I'm very much interested in this mod. Have you started working on it? I'm also a new modder and wanted to make a similar mod. Let me know if you want any help.
Regards,
Spock117

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Just a thought:

The new Humankind game has a "Civic' called "Irreligion" which, if adopted, immediately negates all the benefits from your Holy Sites. Since the Tenets attached to your Holy Sites (religion) in that game can be extremely powerful sources of Science, Gold, Influence, or Stability for your cities, adopt it and you can Screw Yourself royally in a game, since the potential adoption comes fairly early in the game (too early, I think) . That, at least, was how it worked in the last Open Dev: the "Irreligion" Civic was simply a trap for the unwary or novice gamer . . .

 

[Evie]

Not collecting stamps is not a hobby. Spending your days telling stamp collectors that stamp collecting is a waste of time and trying to convince people to abandon stamp collecting pretty much IS a hobby (or equivalent to a hobby) - and a particularly vile one at that.

To reuse the phrase another poster used, when absence of belief (where you just don't believe) become belief in absence (when the absence of god becomes a creed that you will proclaim superior, seek to impose on others, and generally try to assert as the One True Belief), then to all practical purposes, yes, what you have is equivalent to a religion in all meaningful ways.

Sure, technically there are slight difference, but in game terms, it makes zero sense to treat this form of atheism as anything other than a religion.

edit: missing word in first sentence.

 

[leif erikson]

Hey William12123,
I'm very much interested in this mod. Have you started working on it? I'm also a new modder and wanted to make a similar mod. Let me know if you want any help.
Regards,
Spock117

If you are interested in creating such a mod, you should post your idea in the Creation and Customization forum where people can help you if needed.