"Attacko's -What is "Strategy"

[budweiser]

I like to play with huts. I like to play with events on. Now I can see that if I club that enemy scout, he won't eat my lunch. I'll just make sure I have archery pretty quick.

 

[georgjorge]

Could you maybe do a thread on acronyms?

 

[Kawalimus]

It looks like the other workerman is hiding behind the first one and peeking out. He's scared to show himself!

 

[troytheface]

"Could you maybe do a thread on acronyms? "

The question is valid - to understand 99% percent of "Strategy and Tips" you first have to decifer the code some write in.

Perhaps it is a new and better way of explaining already complicated games.
Go through any thread - "i will tech to AH" "this is a RPC" , "well if the TR..."

In essence if you really like this game you get to learn it and if you want to discuss it with others on here you also get to learn abbreviations some idiots made up and other idiots repeat.

The real answer is this- as soon as you see any abbreviation of a game mechanic in a strategy thread assume that the person writing does not really have a grasp of what they are saying even tho they think they do.

Here is the one time i decided to build a worker first, i automated and had teched pottery. He built a cottage.

 

[champ82]

-On one hand I am offended and provoked. Using abbreviations and jargon is not a sign that I or anyone else don’t know what we’re talking about. As for the hypothetical child who finds such jargon dorky…they can leave the room, adults are talking. While there is a lot of linear thinking and encouraging thereof on this forum, it seems to me even deity players often go for different strategies – proof that for all it’s short comings in single player, Civ BTS (that’s Beyond the Sword for any hypothetical 10 year olds) still shows that there are many many ways to skin the preverbal cat.

-On the other hand this may be the best Attacko thread and I like most of them. The screen shots he provided helped bridge his abstract poetry into a real, tangible strategy guide for multi-player. More shots would make it even better. It was an entertaining read with ample as usual. It also had some good points and made me think "What am I doing with this single player, climb the ladder, play the AI nonsense?…I need to get down with multi-player, that's where the real action's at."

…at the moment I get some error when I try internet games. I’ll have to make a thread and get this solved.

 

[troytheface]

Cottages as Strategy

When you start up the game and it is loading, messages come up, tips on the game while your
waiting.

One such message states something like "don't forget cottages- they grow later etc"

Well then, a sentence or two. I get it. However, on here, there are the cottage heros of intellectual wonder that write about cottages- as strategy?

I suppose you could sift through the information for one reason or another- or you can read a sentence while waiting for the game to load.

at any rate in single player if you zoom in as far as possible without the flag disappearing and play the game in this perspective, the graphics are pretty good, exploration more mysterious, the challenge greater. Zooming out to assess- then back in -

Many an illustrated "strategy" thread have circles and are zoomed out with 6 cities and different colored borders, green , red, resources, and basically an incohesive visual mess.
I suggest that all springs from within- or as Oscar Wilde said every painting is a self portrait - or something like that- meaning that the visual mess displayed echos the miswired dysfunction within.

Perspective, - closer- more intimate- more involved- farther out- distant- less involved.
Strategy- being a general-
i suspect that given the chance most armchair generals would be like Xerxes and stay in the back and direct things.
Those generals are really respected by their men and history.

Remember a game in multiplayer and someone typed "turn off animations. what a noob"
#%^$$ you.

 

[katipunero]

So here i have my 1.5 worker man and i met Carthage.
Impi's , Numideans, - Bowmen can handle Impis- but i might need Impis in a fight with Numideans- since i am going for horse. My worker is building towards the Zulu so that he was facing forward for the screenshot.

gravitas.

 

[killmeplease]

subscribed

 

[Bluto_Longneck]

messages come up, tips on the game while your waiting.

You just forgot one word: PIE

Not as in "PieInYourFace, but straight into mine.

I'm overwhelmed by your wisdom.

 

[troytheface]

Reaction and Deer in the Headlights

Sometimes while playing civ4 on multiplayer i am dumbfounded at players reactions to the situation at hand.
An obvious runaway leader- and the response at times is .....nothing.

It is almost as if some are determined to stick to a plan - and lose - rather than try something else. I suspect the same may occur in single player- (unless you reload in which case get out of here- i have no time for cheaters- i take that back- i have time for cheaters- hey cheater! cheat much? )

At any rate- experimentation with a second city island build in single player never worked out-
tried and tried- never could match a standard second city on the coast or something.

But then in multiplayer i noticed something. You go onto the chat thing, kill some time , talk some smak, and go into a game- and there are secret haters of anything that has to do with walking around totally free. Most people hate it if you walk around like your totally free.

Fighting two or three is doable and one or more may even quit if you sneak in a ship attack-
however from a practical point of view the best one can hope for is to hold on and see how things unfold.

This was the premise for "Attacko's Horcux" - a second city island build as refuge and a
pirating base. You can attack the point leader and try to rally others to do something- anything-
(as stated however, more often then not they do nothing. they sit and lose. - i read somewhere that during a subway fire there were people that actually walked into the tunnel while it was smoking. I guess they stuck to their plan)

I said it once and i'll rip it off again and misquote it as well, from Claus Von Bulow or someone,
"no plan ever survived contact with the enemy" - or something. (and this is the guy that injected his wife with diabetes serum and killed her so he knows what he is talking about)

I think there is a psycholgical adage "don't listen to words- follow movement" (for a more accurate assessment i think) or in Latin i think Cicero or Seneca or Hercules said "facto non verba" -"deeds not words"

A long way of saying- if your losing- move!- do something! anything!

not sure what kind of image goes with this- i can't screenshot multiplayer games for any duration- so this is a guy moving which shows an after image - you really can't erase time but don't tell that to reloaders or quitters.

 

[Nilmerf]

I said it once and i'll rip it off again and misquote it as well, from Claus Von Bulow or someone,
"no plan ever survived contact with the enemy" - or something. (and this is the guy that injected his wife with diabetes serum and killed her so he knows what he is talking about)

Carl von Clausewitz! 19th Century version of Attacko? Certainly Attacko takes the side of Clausewitz over Jomini, the latter whom advocated a direct roadmap to victory. AKA, do everything that Frederick the Great and Napoleon did.

I think the quote is from von Moltke, but he owed all of his strategy to Clausewitz.

 

[georgjorge]

As for the hypothetical child who finds such jargon dorky…they can leave the room, adults are talking.

It's not that I find it dorky, but that it makes it unneccessarily hard for me to follow the strategies discussed (I didn't know adults only talk in acronyms, must be hard to do in real life? ). Stuff like

I'll go AH-->WH-->BW-->WR, then try for OR into AL, to have a shot at the GL

is so much harder to read for me than if they were written out, especially as I'm playing the German version and have to double-translate everything. Would it take so much time to write those things out for players that haven't already played lots and lots of games? Anyway, I think that using acronyms is more an American thing (fetish?) than a specific characteristic of Civ players.

 

[troytheface]

The Iceman Cometh (or Tundraman)

that is an interesting notion- and would not be surprising-

in america when someone says "they come from a "good" family" they really mean "they have money".

"it makes it unneccessarily hard for me to follow the strategies discussed "

Of course it does- - think about it- if someone is really trying to help and offer advice wouldn't they be as clear as possible? If you were explaining something to your child would you use nonsensical lingo?

The answer is - of course not- however, because there is no intention of actually offering advice that might be helpful- it makes perfect sense.
"All life is a battle for an open ear" someone once wrote.
Content is secondary. Since by this time there are few diehard players left around- that leaves many scrambling to be "heard" - and to be heard is to join in- with the small group of "EL" writers.

Remember - "Diety" players are the "good" players - good defined-- "of a favorable character or tendency"

yeah, i notice.

Reminds me of the cool guy at the bar- he is in the groove- knows the bartenders, has friends- he is in an enviable position as you sit there, drink in hand, scoping things out.
But upon later reflection- he is a loser bar guy.

Likewise many on here are really "good"- and know people, and they talk to each other and noobs are stupid -unlike themselves who are in the know. I refer to these as "oh yeah, the Bar guy"

Now i need a screenshot because thats the way i have been doing this - Bar Warrior, he posts the level of his games and writes of "CE's"

 

[katipunero]

Of course it does- - think about it- if someone is really trying to help and offer advice wouldn't they be as clear as possible? If you were explaining something to your child would you use nonsensical lingo?

Thanks for this gem of wisdom kind sir. If i may add, most of deity immortal threads in this sub-forum (with the exception of DMOC's wonderful threads of course) have become merely repositories of unexplained screenies. some are tagged or subtitled with sparse information mostly tending to highlight what is already obvious. such as for instance, "me at lib at 10ad" then unto "victory at 900ad" etc. It is fairly amusing and on the whole truly confusing why they call it university or doctorate games because so far as i've noticed these threads don't have any informative value in them to learn from, not even for average to above-average players.

Or maybe they speak in, as you say, a whole different lingo maybe even thru ESP. am i missing something old sage Troytheface? Enlighten me please.

 

[champ82]

It's not that I find it dorky, but that it makes it unneccessarily hard for me to follow the strategies discussed (I didn't know adults only talk in acronyms, must be hard to do in real life? ). Stuff like



is so much harder to read for me than if they were written out, especially as I'm playing the German version and have to double-translate everything. Would it take so much time to write those things out for players that haven't already played lots and lots of games? Anyway, I think that using acronyms is more an American thing (fetish?) than a specific characteristic of Civ players.

Fair enough. They bothered me at first too.

But look at how many posts some people have! Type animal husbandry bronze working the great lighthouse representation universal suffrage 500 times…it’ll get old.

And as an American ESL teacher I can assure you abbreviations are not an American thing. Many of my former (foreign) students would try to write ‘smth.' as opposed to ‘something’ even though they knew damn well how to write ‘something.’ This is just one of many examples.

 

[champ82]

The Iceman Cometh (or Tundraman

Of course it does- - think about it- if someone is really trying to help and offer advice wouldn't they be as clear as possible? If you were explaining something to your child would you use nonsensical lingo?

Hobbies and professions have certain jargon attributed to them. Fluent speakers of any language may not know the words, or abbreviations in this case, at first, but they will learn them.

If I went to law school, or surfing school or helicopter piloting school and my instructors said an unfamiliar word, I wouldn’t accuse them of being elitist, I would just ask them what it means. This happens all the time when I take on a job in a new field, it’s not a big deal. Every post does not have to be ‘explain this to someone who has no idea what Civilization is.’ People are allowed to talk shop with others who know what they’re talking about.

This is not to say the acronyms can not be annoying.

And not to say you don’t have any points, but if I were to say “I come from a good family” I would mean morally sound, ample love and support, no domestic violence.

 

[budweiser]

I know the emperor doesnt have an clothes, but since I don't play on diety, no one listens to me.

There is a great deal of herd mentality on this board. Always was. This isnt the only forum on Civ out there, just the most popular. Not necessarily the best.

 

[troytheface]

"they call it university or doctorate games "

lol. The vikings called Iceland "Iceland" and Greenland, "Greenland"- and, as there was not anyone to call them on it, the ruse worked. I mean who can question a "Dr."?

I too have looked at those mess of games and close them after the first screen shots- all jammed with dubious info and pointless comments. I suggest the "Stories and Tales" section has more truthful walkthroughs- and more interesting.

Which leads to the next bit- you might be wondering- "so its all subjective? whatever the player wants to do is ok and strategy is pointless?"

No. Not really- there are universal truths in anything i suspect- at a base level people like games and challenge- that implies- aside from the game itself- factors that are what we could call "what it is to be human"- within the realm of Civ4 in this case.
However, "competitive" is kind of hard to pull off in single player- and in multiplayer there are alot of factors that can work against you which have nothing to do with competitive ability.

Which leads us to......

Stupid Phrases Stupid People Say

"Play the map"- i like this one. Play the tiles? the action is taking place upon. I suggest "play the game" and you may win -not because of the "map" rather in spite of the map. Again- a nonsensical phrase- what do you mean- take off all units and look at tiles?
Oh- i get it- i just am to stupid to understand what you really mean or are trying to say. Sorry.

"THE BFC"- the explaination is even worse then the abbreviation- "The Big Fat Cross" - which reminds me of a crucified Buddah. How about "the tiles around your city that can be worked by citizens"
10 words. don't strain yourself. Oh yeah, they are only talking to the good players that know about FLR's and stuff.

Wait. I just thought of something. All of those points the poster mentioned above means that
the "Dr's" and the University owners" are really talking to people that already know the game.
Therefore such phrases are ok (take a soma and you'll be a roama) because people that already know the game can give advice to people that already know the game.

hold it, that doesn't make sense.

"If I went to law school, or surfing school or helicopter piloting school and my instructors said an unfamiliar word, I wouldn’t accuse them of being elitist, I would just ask them what it means"

Law school? good analogy. Lawyers are noted for being forthright and honest. John edwards, Clinton, , i think about 90 percent of politicians were lawyers and they do have a good rep for telling the truth.

I wouldn’t accuse them of being elitist-
no one else does either apparently. I suspect it is because a great many people actually prefer and believe in elitism- as evidenced in your examples and this board.

Every group that is swindeling intellect in order to maintain control are doing the good thing because it is what people do?

Civ4 is available to everyone- cripples, the slow, young and old.- jargon here is not needed- rather preferred

Here is a screen shot of something or other. Oh yeah its me "playing the map"
Not sure how i did tho because , ..its a map.

 

[jacklours]

I like the posts so far Attacko, keep em coming.

 

[Bostock]

Is tumbleweed more of an attacker, or a defender?

And what happens when tumbleweed fights bananas?