Barbarian trait indirect benefits

[EverNoob]

I've just noticed something concerning barbarian leaders.

1. When I play a barbarian leader, it seems that rivals seems are killed off by barbs at the beginning of the game more often.

2. When I play a non-barbarian leader and I have a barbarian civ nearby, I get swarmed with alot more barbs than I usually do.

Which leads me to believe that, regardless of whether you play a barbarian leader or not, the same number of barbs spawn. Whoever, since they don't attack the barbarian leader, the other non-barbarian civs have deal with the "extra" barbs.

I can't even play a decent game using a barbarian leader with raging barbs on, because so many of my rivals get wiped out.

 

[Kael]

What difficulty level are you playing at when you play ragin barbs and you play as a barb leader? Playing at a lower difficulty (anything under noble) your right that its a tough bind your putting the AI players in. But at Prince or above the AI should start surving pretty well and comign after you with a vengence (and some pretty ungodly promoted units).

 

[xienwolf]

Also the gamespeed is vital. Playing Epic/Monarch means it is harder for the AI to rebuild defenders that are lost before more Barbarians arrive.

 

[Mailbox]

In my experience, I've found that the +% barbarian bonus the AI gets doesn't overcome the increased spawn rate of barbarians at higher difficulty levels. That could just be my luck though. Game speed is also huge but I find another factor that effects spawn rate is the number of civilizations in a game. Fewer than normal and barbarians have more room to spawn and thus crush everyone while more than normal limits them quite a bit.

Although sometimes those "We have been defeated!" messages for the AI aren't spawned by barbarians so early. Last game I played, the Hippus destroyed the Balseraphs early on and I just assumed that they were conquered by the barbarians since I didn't live on their continent.

 

[Caradoc]

I like to play a raging Barb world on Monarch with 4 extra AIs, and I'd estimate that about half the time, the barbs will overcome one of AIs. (I also edited my handicap file to delay the main rush to turn 50.) This feels about right to me and by the time the rush subsides, the AI cities have gained enough population to have a viable economy.

 

[CarnivalBizarre]

Been hanging here for years and just reading Yeah, Im lazy, so now... Im gonna post, hehe.

The higher difficulties with large maps basically dooms 2-4 civs to die from barbs in the first 200 turn on Epic speed. I like the challange of the raging barbs but the AI seems to have major problem..

Maybe giving them +100% Defence in capital, or making the capital spawn units from population when you are on the brink or something?

 

[Demus]

like mailbox said, half of those defeated messages are from succesfull rushes (expecially tasunke and charadon love these). 200 turns epic speed is more than enough to rush another civ

 

[CarnivalBizarre]

like mailbox said, half of those defeated messages are from successful rushes (especially tasunke and charadon love these). 200 turns epic speed is more than enough to rush another civ

No, but the world builder tells the story... I usually go in there and make sure the AI survives, resurrection so speak. Also I go in there on the first turn and make sure the AI has all good startingplaces...

 

[EverNoob]

What difficulty level are you playing at when you play ragin barbs and you play as a barb leader? Playing at a lower difficulty (anything under noble) your right that its a tough bind your putting the AI players in. But at Prince or above the AI should start surving pretty well and comign after you with a vengence (and some pretty ungodly promoted units).

Game setting were Immortal, stardard speed. I had raging barbs as well as barbarian world on. At one point I was about rush a civ with Beastmen as Charadon, by the time my army got there the capital had been captured by barbarians! The other games I can't confirm the exact cause of the other civs defeat.

Just as well perhaps, playing a barb leader with raging barbs on might be too much of an advantage for a challenging game anyway.

 

[Sarisin]

Game setting were Immortal, stardard speed. I had raging barbs as well as barbarian world on. At one point I was about rush a civ with Beastmen as Charadon, by the time my army got there the capital had been captured by barbarians! The other games I can't confirm the exact cause of the other civs defeat.

Just as well perhaps, playing a barb leader with raging barbs on might be too much of an advantage for a challenging game anyway.

EverNoob, I agree with your points...although I play mostly at Monarch difficulty.

The problem I have with playing a civ with the Barbarian trait is remaining uncivilized enough. With AI civs dropping out of the game THIS also can move you up in points and give you the result of the barbs declaring war on you.

I used to gift techs as one strategy, but now I play with tech bartering off.

What are some of your strategies (love your strategies in that thread!) for staying with the the bounds of the Uncivilized?

 

[Marksman77]

Go up in difficulty

Somehow I managed to never have played a Barbarian trait leader, but that should work.

 

[CarnivalBizarre]

I usually play on emperor or the one above that, depending on what im trying to accomplish.

Still they are crushed by barbarians.

 

[EverNoob]

What are some of your strategies (love your strategies in that thread!) for staying with the the bounds of the Uncivilized?

(Un)fortunatetly, I've never found that a problem. I'm never actually able to get ahead enough in score on immortal. By the time I kill off a couple of civs, there's some other one that always managed to keep up. Unless I'm close to winning by domination, in which case peace with the barbs isn't an issue anymore

 

[smusebaer]

On a map with tectonics, lakes, Emperor about 50 % leaders die on Barbarians swarms. I started one game as barbarian with raging barbarians on won at turn 100 without war.
I think mostly skeletonsswarms are the biggest problem.
perhaps a homedefence Unit with str. 4 move 0 and fast healing that spawns when the startingsettler builds a city would be great.

 

[Mailbox]

I'd prefer if the palace gave + 50%-100% defense and 10%-20% heal rate (perhaps as a promotion to all capital city units). That would end a lot of problems with the AI dying early, whether it was because of the player rushing or the barbarians wiping out the AI.

 

[xanaqui42]

It's not that difficult of a fix, if it's a bit involved - it's both in Wiser Orcs and Smarter Orcs. Basically, the gist of it is that the AI tracks its dying units due to barbarian action, and when that reaches a threshold (accessible via XML), it moves to a war-like gearing.

If you're a C++ coder, and interested, just look at the Wiser Orcs code, grepping on:
stronger response to barbarian offensive
Or pm me, and I can give you the detail.

Note that implementing this breaks saved games.

 

[Sarisin]

On a map with tectonics, lakes, Emperor about 50 % leaders die on Barbarians swarms. I started one game as barbarian with raging barbarians on won at turn 100 without war.
I think mostly skeletonsswarms are the biggest problem.
perhaps a homedefence Unit with str. 4 move 0 and fast healing that spawns when the startingsettler builds a city would be great.

If you play at the slower game speeds, I don't think this will happen. I've found that usually the barb gang shows up around Turn 200 in Epic speed. The AI has expanded and 'reasonably' defended its cities by then, so you don't see all the AI civs go down - a few might, though.

I suppose this is once instance where the slower game speed might make a positive difference in the game.

Interestingly, I have been finding the opposite to be true in the modmod Fall Further. The barbs come in force between turns 40-50 and that is just too early in an epic speed game.

I have had three Conquest Victories before turn 160 just by building 5-6 defenders and watching the others go down one by one.

I use the huge Fantasy Realm map and play at Prince or Monarch, though, so that might make a difference as well.