Barbarian world option - too powerful?

[damocles88]

I would like to play with the Barbarian world custom game option (is it called Barbarian world, I forget. The one where there's a barb city for every civ in the game at game start)

I like the idea of tons of cities spread about, but the problem is the barbs seem to get a production bonus of some kind. They output warriors at a ridiculous rate. (and raging barbs is off)

I just tried a game on Warlord level, and by the time I had 1 warrior scouting, 1 warrior and 1 archer defending, a stack of 8 barb warriors marched up and wiped me out. I tried another game, where I sat a warrior on a hill and watched as a warrior popped out of a lvl 1 barbarian city every 2-3 turns. Meanwhile it takes the player around 8 turns to build that first warrior.

Is this a balance issue with that mod component?

Regardless, I would like to change this production bonus the barbs get to try and level the playing field. Which XML files should I be looking in?

 

[os79]

I would like to play with the Barbarian world custom game option (is it called Barbarian world, I forget. The one where there's a barb city for every civ in the game at game start)

I like the idea of tons of cities spread about, but the problem is the barbs seem to get a production bonus of some kind. They output warriors at a ridiculous rate. (and raging barbs is off)

I just tried a game on Warlord level, and by the time I had 1 warrior scouting, 1 warrior and 1 archer defending, a stack of 8 barb warriors marched up and wiped me out. I tried another game, where I sat a warrior on a hill and watched as a warrior popped out of a lvl 1 barbarian city every 2-3 turns. Meanwhile it takes the player around 8 turns to build that first warrior.

Is this a balance issue with that mod component?

Regardless, I would like to change this production bonus the barbs get to try and level the playing field. Which XML files should I be looking in?

It is based on RevolutionDCM mod that is the backbone of this mod. So go here and request for tweakings to make it slightly easier. Otherwise, I think the settings for it are in REvolution.ini or REvolutionDCM.ini in the Rise of Mankind folder. not sure if I'm right as I don't play with that option on for the same reason as you described .

 

[damocles88]

I found a surprisingly simple solution...

In the assets/xml/GlobalDefines.xml file, change the section:
<DefineName>MIN_BARBARIAN_CITY_STARTING_DISTANCE</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>2</iDefineIntVal>

to:
<DefineName>MIN_BARBARIAN_CITY_STARTING_DISTANCE</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>6</iDefineIntVal>

It seems the main reason the barbarians seemed to be producing tons of units is because they were working together. So having 4-5 cities in close proximity to the player resulted in an explosion of warrior units all acting as one civ. By spacing the barb cities further away, they take longer to group together, giving the player enough time to build up some defences and stave off the barbarian attacks.

So far I've only tested this in a Large continents map, but it should scale to most map sizes (although I assume small maps will struggle to find space for all the barbarian cities)

 

[zappara]

Thanks for the adjustment tip By the way on what difficulty you play? AIs get various bonuses depending on difficulty etc. and since the mod includes Better BtS AI, there's quite a lot of improvements to Barbarian AI as well.

 

[damocles88]

All the problems in this thread relate to Warlord difficulty. I dread to think what playing Barbarian World is like on the higher levels.

The real problem is the fact that Barbs act as one civ. It's like starting the game being completely surrounded by a civ that really hates you. At least with the 6 tile spacing, you have a fighting chance.

It also gets interesting when you're ready to start taking barb cities - the first city I took in my current game, there was only 3 spearman. Easy enough. Then the next city had about 10 spearmen and just as many archers. I walked up, unawares, with a stack of 5 hispatates and got slaughtered before I even tried attacking the city

Overall, with the difficulty tweak, I really like barb world mode. Without the tweak, it was way too difficult to be fun.

 

[Killtech]

hmm, i started a game on Emperor difficulty, advanced start with 4000 points, large map, archipelago with low sea level and 30 civs (yeah, a bit too many) on snail speed. athough i was surrouneded by 3 barb cities i didn't have much difficulties but all my comupter counterpars had a lot. many civs didn't make it through the early game and those who did were unable to expand. this resulted that i'm already by score 3 times better than any other civ in the world, i'm already in the middle ages at 100 AD and quite undefeatable... ok playing boudica (celts) gives you very strong advantages at fighting form the beginning.

 

[CMKMStephens]

I've been thinking about this for a while now, but would multiple barbarian civs be possible? As mentioned here, the barbarians do effectively act like one civ with unlimited military capacity, scheming to destroy all your cart paths. Perhaps there should be three or so barbarian 'civs' so the buggers will as often as not spend time attacking each other.

 

[Supercheese]

I've been thinking about this for a while now, but would multiple barbarian civs be possible? As mentioned here, the barbarians do effectively act like one civ with unlimited military capacity, scheming to destroy all your cart paths. Perhaps there should be three or so barbarian 'civs' so the buggers will as often as not spend time attacking each other.

I fully support this suggestion, as it makes sense both from a gameplay aspect and a realism aspect (various bands of barbarians might join together, but every barbarian city in the world? I think not.)

 

[Killtech]

'In barbarism and banditism we stand united!'
hehe yeah, it would make some sense to make multiple barbarian civs using same graphic sets, so you wouldn't see the difference. though it would take some effort to add this into the game i think - especiall a good distribution of the different barbarian factions

 

[Castian]

this mod as good is getting so far should treat barbies as "small violent tribes" not debeloping to far or strong, maybe as vanilla's?
BUT there should be at least 3 Evil civs!
some barbaric, some tribal and other bandit like, with leaderheads, and of course no alliances or even technology trade or anything.... but can they be paid to attack certain civilization!
or can be bought "peace" for some turns or even better this unplayeable always enemies civs have unique units whom can be bought!
that would be cool, says me

 

[Terrance888]

I suggest every barb is a separate city state UNLESS they are within X tiles of each other, then they are a barb nation that can split into civil war extremely easily.

Every 'Cultural Group' of barbs have their own unit looks and their own UU.

Every Barb Nation has a single culture group and a special flag with a insigna above the skull (like a hawk, or a dragon ect).

Barb nations can become regular nations after some time, chosing either a larger military advantage, an innovation advantage (settled Great Scientists) or a Settling Nomad advantage (insta spawn 1 worker/settler per x triggers)

If only.

 

[zappara]

I suggest every barb is a separate city state UNLESS they are within X tiles of each other, then they are a barb nation that can split into civil war extremely easily.

The engine only allows one barbarian civ - though minor civs don't have this limit and they can be set to be "barbaric" ie. can't be played by human player.

 

[civ_king]

The engine only allows one barbarian civ - though minor civs don't have this limit and they can be set to be "barbaric" ie. can't be played by human player.

I know for a fact that it is possible to make more, take FF for example

 

[konradcabral]

The engine only allows one barbarian civ - though minor civs don't have this limit and they can be set to be "barbaric" ie. can't be played by human player.

For this I'd imagine a civ with a simpler interface, without leaderhead but some diplomatic options, mainly vassalage and capitulation.