Barracks upgrade should change regular to veteran

[Veteranewbie]

I am sick of having to waste time to build new units instead of having to update the units, since even if i waste the same gold to upgrade a regular units than a vet units, the upgraded unit is still regular and less good as a vet unit. It also stop me from building enough units early game since it is frustrating having to keep that much regular units that cannot fight as good as vet units, and i have to waste time to disband them+sought them out from vet units to disband. I also have to replace them late game.
Therefore, for the proper patch 1.12, I hope this issue will be addressed.

 

[wilbill]

Have you tried building a few barracks?

 

[Veteranewbie]

Even with barracks in all my cities, it still take time to build things. And personally I have waste at least 200 shields every game since I have to disband those obsolete regular units and build new one to replace them.

 

[playshogi]

What do you think the solution to your problem is? That is, what exactly is the nature of the patch? That all units be upgraded automatically to veteran after the barracks are built? If so, I disagree. Besides, if all you're wasting is 200 shields per game, I'd say you're doing extremely well. Suppose your city is producing 59 shields and you want to produce a unit that costs 120. Look at all the wasted shields, 3*59=177. That's 57 wasted right there. Sometimes your city is producing exactly 60 shields so you think "Aha! I can build that unit in 2 turns", But, sadly, your city is struck by pollution and it still takes you 3 turns to build.

 

[microbe]

Originally posted by Veteranewbie
I am sick of having to waste time to build new units instead of having to update the units, since even if i waste the same gold to upgrade a regular units than a vet units, the upgraded unit is still regular and less good as a vet unit.

If upgrading makes regulars into veterans, it's essentially making one barracks work for all cities (as all cities can build regulars which turn into veterans).

What you are complaining about is quite reasonable.

 

[wilbill]

What's wrong with having a few regular units? You can:
1 - Use them to garrison interior cities that arent' likely to be attacked.
2 - Use them to fight a war. The ones that win will mostly get promoted, the ones that lose won't be a problem anymore.
Or if it still bothers you...
3 - Don't build units in cities without barracks.

 

[Qitai]

If they change that to what you say, I will build only one barrack and go back to the upgrading trick to get my vet troops. Now, Sun Tze AOW will becomes very uselss especially after you get rails. Do you want another exploit?

 

[Veteranewbie]

But firstly u have to upgrade, u have to have a barrack in the city first (at least thats what i think u have to do now). So basically thats not a problem. If that is not whats happening now, they better change it so u can only upgrade units only if u have a barracks in the city.

 

[Qitai]

Yes, but I only need one barrack in the whole empire with your suggestion, instead of barracks in every city that I build units.

 

[Park Ranger]

The potential exploit in allowing upgrades to promote regulars is this:

With rails, and one barracks (say in my capital), I could build regular infantry across my civ, then when computers are discovered, move infantry to capital and upgrade, suddenly have a force of *veteran* mech inf. while only paying 1GPT upkeep for one barracks.

While maybe not a huge exploit, and it would take a lot of effort to do properly (and without undue risk in having defenders out of position for a turn), it would probably still be worth doing.

Really, I don't mind my units having to earn their veteran status. I rarely have more than a handful of regulars, most of them warriors that I may or may not upgrade to swordsmen. There should be some long term payoff to being organized enough to have most of my units built where there's a barracks. As in, if I hadn't managed to build enough barracks (often for me two or three will do for most of the ancient era) then I should be stuck with the regulars until I can win enough battles to get promoted.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[Dimy]

I only build some defenders without barracks in the early game, after that I build Barracks in at least two cities to start building attackers, just don't build regular units and your problem is solved.

 

[Veteranewbie]

But still industrialization is a pretty late tech. I believe that if your civ wanna survive u may want more Vet than ur regulars throuh the whole ancient+medieval age.

 

[Yeti]

If they make normals veterans, then they should make elites veterans too...

And just as an FYI, I've noticed that even a 2HP conscript stays that way after an upgrade.

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

I wouldn't obsess too much about all your units being veteran. As pointed out above, winners will often go to veteran status, and regular units are great for garrison duty in your inner cities. When you do go to war regulars are still very useful for knocking off enemy attackers in the open, and you can save veteran/elites for city cracking. IMO, you are far better off cranking out units in every city, interspersing them between gold/science/production projects. You should steadily increase your military, as much as you can afford to. The AI will be less likely to attack you if you have a large force of assorted regular troops vs. a smaller, carefully crafted veteran force in only your barracked cities. And, you will be in a better position to stave them off if you have more units in every city, even if they are not premium attack troops. As Stalin pointed out, quantity has a quality all its own.

 

[Roland Johansen]

You could make the upgrade from regular to veteran cost 10 gold. And the upgrade could be available for regular spearman to veteran spearmen too. I think 10 gold would be pretty balanced.

 

[Pounder]

I don't think that a unit should be a veteran unless it has fought or at least been trained. Barracks represent training, but only if the unit was built while you had baracks.

This is perfectly fine with me.

 

[Commander Bello]

I guess, the discussion arises because there is one rank missing!

What I would like would be the following:

1) Militia (drafted, barbarian)
2) Newbie (normally build)
3) Regular (built by the help of a barracks)
4) Veteran (having been Regular and having won some battles)
5) Elite (very, very rare - having had much battle praxis and gaining extra hitpoints)

Of course, the normal promotion will work for all those levels, that means even a militia type unit may become elite... but this should be a very rare occasion, since it would have to win many, many, many battles...

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

I'm a perfectionist and can't stand to have regular troops wandering around. Barbarians almost always provide the oppertunity to upgrade these troops though, and I always build barracks as a prequisite to building units, save for 1 or 2 initial scouts and any free warriors I get from huts.

Just be reckless with these inferior units while sparing your veterans and elites. That way they will either die and relieve you of their burden, or acheive parity with the rest of your forces.

It shouldn't be possible to have a perfectly disciplined force of units without getting your hands dirty with some real fighting.

 

[Turner]

It does make a certain amount of sense for a unit to be upgraded from normal to veteran in a city with a barracks. Personally, I think that a regular unit should be upgraded to veteran after a certain amount of time, anyways. Think of the barracks as a training center as well.

But I don't think the current system needs to be fixed. It does work fine as is. I kinda like the idea of a military training building. Put it between the barracks and civil defense, and make it a building that comes under military tradition. This would bring the barracks - civil defense buildings idealisitically along the lines of marketplaces/banks/stock exchanges, and libraries/uni's/research centers. Now all we need is a third building for temples/cathedrals, and it would all be symmetrical.

Not a bad idea, but as I said I don't think the system is currently broken.

 

[Commander Bello]

Originally posted by Turner_727
It does make a certain amount of sense for a unit to be upgraded from normal to veteran in a city with a barracks. Personally, I think that a regular unit should be upgraded to veteran after a certain amount of time, anyways. Think of the barracks as a training center as well.

But I don't think the current system needs to be fixed. It does work fine as is. [...]
Not a bad idea, but as I said I don't think the system is currently broken.

a) It may make sense to upgrade given regulars to veterans by the help of a barrack, but just in the current promotion system. In matters of 'reality', "veterans" describe battle approved, experienced troops. Not just guys who have visited a military refreshment course....

b) I think, that the implementation of a fifth level, as stated in my earlier post (those "regulars") would make sense, since it would allow a little bit more fine-tuning for your armies. The current concept in which only the elite is really a combat experienced unit is a little bit poor, in my eyes.
Such an implementation wouldn't take too much coding, either (wild guess, but I really don't see any impact on the normal game play - since the AI doesn't care for the promotion levels at all).

[edit] typo