[R&F] Based on the new features - which civilizations and leaders should be introduced in R&F?

[Phoenix1595]

I am certain of the Inca being in this round, the rest is conjecture. I would be just as happy with a Sehal civ like Mali taking the place of a supposed Italian city-state civ, but as posters mentioned above, I think Nubia may have bumped them from R&F. Plus, the plague scene+lack of Italian CSs...

They may very well leave out the Ottomans for a rainy day DLC (Eagle is right... easier to sell a mega-civ in a DLC than a minor one, and Ottomans are definitely a mega). Carthage is a reasonable replacement.

The Celt/Zulu inclusion? I wouldn't be ecstatic, but they are likely to be in the game sooner or later. I just hope they really think through the Celtic civ-- limit its scope to a single region/period, and don't pull a Civ5 blob civ of Boadicca/bagpipes/Scottish this/Irish that. That's just sloppy.

 

[bite]

I think Nubia was an inspired choice. Unless we don't get Ethiopia. Then it was a horrible choice.

Well Ethiopia would complete the Nile civilizations list

 

[CPWimmer]

Time to revisit my predictions

1. Korea (Seondeok 632 AD - Female and under represented time period, plus other tie-ins)
2. Netherlands (and Wilhemena met my 20th century leader guess as well)
3. Mongols (First look revealed Ghengis instead of Kublai, oh well )
4. Cree Western NA Native American Tribe (I was leaning south west due to TSL map, and also Delicate Arch) - but I still consider this a win, given their initial city list shows them starting in Saskatchewan.
5. Inca (Reasons haven't changed)
6. Ottoman/Turks (Reasons haven't changed)
7. Carthage (Moving up one slot, I now think that Carthage will fill both the the Ancient Civ requirement AND the African requirement AND maybe even the female leader role w/ Dido - still a slim chance they go more modern in Africa with Mali since Korea is pre-1000 AD, but I think they need a BC representative here).
8. Something European: Sweden, Celts, Italy, Georgia??? I am still at a loss here, but I now think that a European slot is now guaranteed with Isabella NOT getting the Alt leader. Still uncomfortable with this guess, but has their ever been a Civ expansion with just one European representative?

Alt Leader: Chandragupta of India instead of Isabella of Castile really blew up my list - it took a spot away from both Europe and a Female leader. Does that mean Tamar of Georgia is really a thing???

1. Korea (Seondeok 632 AD - I am starting to wonder if Firaxis will consider this as their only nod to Ancient/Classical Eras even though it is arguable that she reigned at the start of the Medieval Age. Non-European history is so hard to measure using European terms.)
2. Netherlands (Wilhemena met my 20th century leader guess)
3. Mongols (Ghengis instead of my guess of Kublai, oh well )
4. Alt Leader: Chandragupta of India instead of Isabella of Castile really blew up my list - this was where my list started to fall apart.
   
5. Cree (Even with Creegate with the Poundmaker tribe, I am glad they are in, and hope that situation gets resolved favorably. I'm still considering this a win for my predictions, even though the specific Native American/First Nations Civ was an unknown to me.)
6. Georgia (This fits into my "something European: Sweden, Celts, Italy, Georgia???" slot that I had added when Isabella wasn't the alt leader, but I won't really consider this one a win for my predictions. Georgia is questionably in Europe, and I really didn't think they would actually follow through with Georgia.)
7. Inca (My reasons haven't changed - I still feel strongly that this one will be in RF - there are no clues like most of the others that have been revealed, but at this point I think the clues are all played out, plus there weren't any for the Cree or ChandraG. In addition I can't imagine them ignoring pre-Columbian South America)
8. Ottoman/Turks (My reasons haven't changed, although with Georgia included this part of the world might be a little too cramped to add them for this expansion - Firxas is certainly making me start to worry. If they don't make it in, then my guess falls back to something fitting into the ancient/classical era or something "more European" than Georgia to move this expansion back a little towards their historic trends - where they certainly ignore map space for Western Europe - heck maybe even the Celts/Scots with Mel Gibson as their leader *shudder*).
9. Zulu (now replaces Carthage as my guess... they no longer need Dido to be the female Age related leader, and the disappearance of the Zulu leak thread makes me think it might have been real. I certainly still think that there is an African Civ requirement for this expansion, and at this point Mali is running as a distant third place for this slot).

Some more thoughts on the Inca and the Ottoman: IF they don't make it in, then the question comes down to DLC vs. headlining XP2. I've been torn about this for a while, some people have had good DLC ideas:

• Ottoman AND Byzantine with a related scenario has some interest, and would certainly sell as DLC. I am quite torn on if their will even be New Civs as DLC post XP2, I hope so since that is probably the content that interest me the most.
• Inca AND Machu Pichu AND Mayan AND Isabella seems a little less likely to me as DLC, since they essentially did this for Civ 5 - on the other hand I would be surprised that the Inca and Mayan actually end up in the same XP - which is one of many reasons why the Inca are my top choice for R&F.

 

[Wingednosering]

My predictions are holding true, but I was super generic with them, so not sure they 'count'. Surprised Tamar was revealed this early. I suppose it's possible that they swapped them around a bit because of the Cree? Doubt it though. All the media releases we're getting are months old.

I still think the Inca and Ottomans are likely (screw the chinese 'leak'). We also need an African civ and while I would be disappointed, the Zulu would be fine. They fill the map, they're expected....they just aren't exciting and bring nothing to gameplay. We know they'll have Impi, Shaka or Nandi and probably the Encampment replacement (Ikanda?). It's so predictable. Aside from the leader scene, the civ design writes itself.

I am holding out hope for a West African civ still. Mali seems super unlikely with all of the trade bonuses going to other civs, plus the 'billionaire' agenda for Wilhelmina. I'm guessing Ghana is too difficult because we don't know of any big personalities for leaders and it can be confused with modern-day Ghana. Given the region's options, I don't think the Songhai will be back in Civ VI.

This leaves the Hausa/Zazzau or the Ashanti as the most likely West African candidates. Both have really powerful women that could lead them. Both are in a region that lies bare. It seems to me that the Hausa would be more trade focused, while the Ashanti would be defensive/cultural. Given that there is no culture civ in R&F, I think the Ashanti are a decent bet. Kumasi was a CS and still hasn't been seen.

If the Ashanti don't get in, we're missing a cultural civ.

Mongols - Espionage/Warfare
Korea - Science
Netherlands - Economy
Georgia - Faith/Ages/Envoys
Cree - Expansionist/Exploration/Trade
Chandragupta - Expansionist/Warfare
[Inca] - No idea. I guess mountainous? Slight overlap with Georgia? Probably expansionist?
[Ottomans/Zulu] - We only get one of these probably, since both are unique district possibilities. Both will be militaristic, but I assume the Ottomans would also be gold focused.

I've been seeing a lot of suggested civs, but none would be cultural powerhouses, aside from the Italian Renaissance option. Ethiopia, while deserving, would probably be faith oriented rather than cultural.

 

[Vahnstad]

Would Muisca or Gran Colombia be a cultural civ?

 

[Wingednosering]

Would Muisca or Gran Colombia be a cultural civ?

I don't know enough about either to say for sure, but I don't think so. Gran Columbia definitely doesn't seem like it could.

Muisca could possibly have a culture focus. Apparently sport was a big deal for them (but sport is typically an amenity bonus in Civ VI) and they had some interesting religious practices. I see little in the way of fine art (they practiced ceramic artwork, but that's about it) and architecture (really not a lot to see). I could be way off base though. I don't know much about them.

 

[bite]

Ok here we go looking back on my list I'm still doing pretty good, I'm still not sold on the 'Leak' sorry I'm a pics or it didn't happen kind of guy when it comes to this stuff, but I think we will find out one way or the other next week

I'm working on a spread of civs and I think it will be in order from east to west

1) Korea (crown in trailer, been in the last 3 games)
2) Mongols (featured in trailer, been in every previous game
3) Georgia (Tamar is much mentioned leader and fits the categories stated for new leaders)
4) Ottomans (Huge hole in Rome Map, Been in last 3 games, first thought was Byzantium, but now leading towards the Ottomans, Carthage a possible outside pick)
5) Netherlands/ The Dutch ( in trailer, been in last three games)
6) Ghana (a guess but it fits with the themes) Could also be one of the Niger River civs like Mali
7) Cree (thought they would go with one of the plains peoples, went a bit too south there but I'll say part marks)
8) Inca (Once again no new American Civs in DLC so I think they will change it here, and Inca is the most well known of the SA civilization also been in last 3 games)

Now at the moment I am 4 1/2 out of 5 picks with 3 more to go

 

[blackcatatonic]

My guesses for the last 5 were Canada (looking unlikely now that we have the Cree), Georgia (confirmed!), Inca, Ottomans and Italy.

Now that we know that the remaining unique features are two Improvements and one District, this would seem to put the Ottomans and Italy in competition as it's hard to imagine a good unique Improvement for either. We also clearly lack a culture-focused, Renaissance-era Civ and this to me is suggestive of Italy. The idea of the Ottomans still not being in the game after the first expansion is really surprising to me but at this point I can see it happening.

Then we have the Chinese "leak" which I am still hoping is fake but which will likely not be definitively discounted until all the remaining Civs have been revealed.

So my revised guesses:
- Inca (unique Improvement, likely the terrace farm again). This is the one I'm most certain of at this point.
- Italy (unique Government District or possibly Theatre Square replacement)
- If not the Ottomans then there are several possibilities, but whoever they are must have a unique Improvement. We could have Carthage (a coastal Improvement producing Tyrian purple could work), Scotland (less likely as we already have several medieval Civs, but they could get a broch improvement), or an African Civ. My pick of these would be Carthage.

If we do get the Ottomans, I'd expect them to replace Italy. It's probably controversial to put Italy ahead of Ottomans but the DLC pack theory is starting to make me worry about them. And I know Italy is contentious but the signs are definitely there: no CSes, great fit for the theme, and if not them we still need a culture-focused Civ from somewhere.

 

[ArallanKing]

Ok here we go looking back on my list I'm still doing pretty good, I'm still not sold on the 'Leak' sorry I'm a pics or it didn't happen kind of guy when it comes to this stuff, but I think we will find out one way or the other next week

I'm working on a spread of civs and I think it will be in order from east to west

1) Korea (crown in trailer, been in the last 3 games)
2) Mongols (featured in trailer, been in every previous game
3) Georgia (Tamar is much mentioned leader and fits the categories stated for new leaders)
4) Ottomans (Huge hole in Rome Map, Been in last 3 games, first thought was Byzantium, but now leading towards the Ottomans, Carthage a possible outside pick)
5) Netherlands/ The Dutch ( in trailer, been in last three games)
6) Ghana (a guess but it fits with the themes) Could also be one of the Niger River civs like Mali
7) Cree (thought they would go with one of the plains peoples, went a bit too south there but I'll say part marks)
8) Inca (Once again no new American Civs in DLC so I think they will change it here, and Inca is the most well known of the SA civilization also been in last 3 games)

Now at the moment I am 4 1/2 out of 5 picks with 3 more to go

I read somewhere that this'd be
2 Asian civs
2 European civs
2 African civs
2 American civs
and 1 new leader

also this'd have
3 civs from Civ5
3 civs come back from previous games
2 entirely new civs

and right now theyve announced
3 civs from Civ5 (korea, nederland, mongol)
2 entirely new ones (cree & georgia)
and the new leader

with
2 asian civs (korea & mongol)
2 european civs (nederland & georgia)
1 american civs (cree)
and india who brings new leader

I think the Ottoman empire wouldnt be in this expansion pack, since we havent got the other american civs and both african civs Id rather guess theyd come back from previous Civs such as
Hannibal-Carthago,
Shaka-Zulu/Mansa-Mali,
and Huayna Capac-Inca

 

[ArallanKing]

ps: Since Shaka is always in every games like Gandhi and Genghis, eventho he appeared in Civ5, Id bet on him due to his presence in every game.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I read somewhere that this'd be
2 Asian civs
2 European civs
2 African civs
2 American civs
and 1 new leader

also this'd have
3 civs from Civ5
3 civs come back from previous games
2 entirely new civs

Where did you read this? I'm curious because I haven't seen this anywhere.
I would say Georgia is in Asia though many Georgians would dispute me because they think they're European.
Even if this is right, Ottomans will still need to come soon. And I would even say the inclusion of Georgia makes Ottomans more likely. I'm still hoping for a Mali/ West African Civ right now as well as Inca. These three have been the areas that people are becoming the most vocal about representation.

 

[Wingednosering]

Italy would fit the Renn and Cultural slots, but I just don't see it. Something about it feels off to me. Maybe it's the whole CS thing. They weren't in the base game, but that means very little since they replace CSes with new ones anyway so that argument isn't very compelling to me. Puppeting is out and in general CSes and GMs work differently to how they worked in V, so the Venice approach won't work based on how Ed described the creative process last time.

I could see an italian republics civ, but it's still seems unlikely to me.

Fingers crossed for Ashanti over Shaka.

 

[DeepKing]

Ashanti could definitely play a cultural role, some bonuses to trade and war to make them less one directional.

 

[Lord Lakely]

I'm kind of starting to believe that the last three Civs are -heaven forbid- Inca, Celts and Zulu.

Ottomans, Inca and Ashanti/Ethiopia would be my personal preferences though.

 

[liv]

Ashanti could definitely play a cultural role, some bonuses to trade and war to make them less one directional.

And have a female ruler with Yaa Asantewaa.
I think it would be great.
.....
Yeah we do need a civ added strong on culture and tourism

 

[Wingednosering]

Ashanti could definitely play a cultural role, some bonuses to trade and war to make them less one directional.

They would be cultural/defensive. Yaa is a very clear leader choice and is most often remembered for a speech where she said (paraphrase) "If the men won't defend us, then we women will do it for you."

Pretty fitting for the current political climate here in the west.

 

[Zaarin]

They would be cultural/defensive. Yaa is a very clear leader choice and is most often remembered for a speech where she said (paraphrase) "If the men won't defend us, then we women will do it for you."

Pretty fitting for the current political climate here in the west.

You're giving me false hope for Joanne of Flanders.


I'm hoping that, if there is some truth to the Chinese leak, that William Wallace is the replacement for Genghis Khan as a Great General.

 

[bite]

You're giving me false hope for Joanne of Flanders.


I'm hoping that, if there is some truth to the Chinese leak, that William Wallace is the replacement for Genghis Khan as a Great General.

that would make more sense than him being a leader of the Celts

 

[Tesludo]

Firaxis could easily "fill" South America by adding the Guarani and/or Tupi. Guarani is spoken in Paraguay, has been extensively documented as was the daily lives of the Guarani people; they could have Mate as a unique resource or something like that.

As for the Tupi, there are Nheengatu speakers in Brazil, even if nowadays their numbers are reduced. In their case we have to rely more on archaeology for the good stuff, like for example farms that gain adjacency bonuses with jungles and forests, borrwing from the fact that they did manage the Amazon rainforest, practiced slash n' burn farming and muche more that we are discovering right now.

Firaxis' focus on solely the Inca is silly, since the Andes are just part of the continent. Not only that but the addition of these two indian groups would make Brazil redundant, which would open a slot for another civ.

And a little known fact: atlantic indians traded with the pacific ones. The was a road, called Caminho do Peabirú, that strecthed from São Paulo's coast and linked up with Cuzco. So the Incas are not the only road builders of the region. =P

 

[Thormodr]

Firaxis could easily "fill" South America by adding the Guarani and/or Tupi. Guarani is spoken in Paraguay, has been extensively documented as was the daily lives of the Guarani people; they could have Mate as a unique resource or something like that.

As for the Tupi, there are Nheengatu speakers in Brazil, even if nowadays their numbers are reduced. In their case we have to rely more on archaeology for the good stuff, like for example farms that gain adjacency bonuses with jungles and forests, borrwing from the fact that they did manage the Amazon rainforest, practiced slash n' burn farming and muche more that we are discovering right now.

Firaxis' focus on solely the Inca is silly, since the Andes are just part of the continent. Not only that but the addition of these two indian groups would make Brazil redundant, which would open a slot for another civ.

And a little known fact: atlantic indians traded with the pacific ones. The was a road, called Caminho do Peabirú, that strecthed from São Paulo's coast and linked up with Cuzco. So the Incas are not the only road builders of the region. =P

Would like to see the Guarani. They'd be a lot of fun. That or Paraguay.