Basium

I would make the case that the whole extraplanar armies need a bit of a reworking anyway. It makes much more sense if you are Basium to Slaughter the good civilizations first so you can get lots of angels, the same thing goes for Hyborem and the Evil civilizations.

Perhaps utilizing the "Great General" Bar for Basium and Hyborem instead - as they kill units, more armies are summoned to erebus to help with the war? I'd reduce the XP required for new units significantly and grow it slowly at first. Hyborem might still need a bit of a boost to get more manes since he needs them for city growth though.
 
I could also see if my view is shared in the appropriate place to do so, the forum for the mod.

My planning was excellent, my takeover AI had the resources and unit access to single handedly win the game, and I was pumping 150+ military production in short order. Likewise my planning in previous games has also been excellent. I usually let Basium play himself, spawn him in a recent conquest outside my core empire that I want to have, and conquer around him, giving him his own core empire to play with.

What is not excellent is a complete lack of use from an AI team mate that starts out with dick in the late game and doesn't do anything of merit. Against the AI Basium is merely impotent, against my brother, I dare say it's suicide. My brother isn't a strategic genius either, he doesn't even use hawks to scout his border and gets important units killed regularly by edge of empire incursions. I took myself from nigh invincible and sure to win, to an inept AI side that lost a 125% defense city to a small, half dead army with three times the troops in range of it the turn before.

If the AI were even marginally competent, this might not be an issue at all, but I can't see the use in the guy as is by any stretch of the imagination. Summoning him, whether you switch or not, just gives your opponent a better research rate and free experience.
 
If you clearly knew all this, why did you bother to summon him? Cuz you always do? Well, there's a plannin flaw. Do the unexpected! You did wat you always do tho. And, now, you're whinin cuz it backfired one of out countless times. Yeah...sooner or later, probability tells ya it's gonna backfire.
 
Psychoak, I understand what you're talking about. My advice would be until Basium is fixed, or made somewhat better, to not build the Mercurian gate unless you plan to control him.
 
westamastaflash said:
I would make the case that the whole extraplanar armies need a bit of a reworking anyway. It makes much more sense if you are Basium to Slaughter the good civilizations first so you can get lots of angels, the same thing goes for Hyborem and the Evil civilizations.

Perhaps utilizing the "Great General" Bar for Basium and Hyborem instead - as they kill units, more armies are summoned to erebus to help with the war? I'd reduce the XP required for new units significantly and grow it slowly at first. Hyborem might still need a bit of a boost to get more manes since he needs them for city growth though.
Click to expand...

I think your point was that it makes sense strategically but not narratively. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, it makes perfect sense if it's someone else killing the units. Also in this universe the immortal soul does exist and everyone knows it. See this post:
Kael said:
Another thing to consider about Os-Gabella, to her mortal lifespans are ridiculously short. They are nothing but flies. Killing others to achieve her ends may seem drastic, but through her eyes they are only a few short breaths from death anyway.

She also understands the pattern of "eternal life". Through normal death the soul goes on to serve some god waging an endless, pointless (to her) war against each other. Or cast into the purgatory that is Arawns underworld trapped within the visions of their dreams, or the eternal slave of some necromancer or evil priest.

She wantrs to break the whole cycle. She doesn't want to kill everyone in the normal anti-life kind of mentality, she wants to end creation itself. She believes that the experiment has failed and the only thing to do now is to end it.
Click to expand...

Therefore Basium (or someone else) would get their souls in a very short time by his perspective on time anyway, but he only has a short time to save creation. If you wanna make an omelet, you gotta crack a few heads.
 
A couple of changes I make when playing FfH2 are: the Infernal and Mercurian palaces both give +40g instead of +8g, Basium's default AI is changed from UNITAI_ATTACK to UNITAI_CITY_DEFENSE.

The above definately helps Hyborem when he pops out and it also keeps Basium from committing suicide.
 
psychoak said:
It's been bugging me for a while.

Summoning Basium sucks.
Click to expand...

Basium would appear to be designed for Cardith Lorda, although the research hit is a bit of a downer. You have just inspired me to try it out :)

Also don't forget that you can gift cities (and settelments I assume?) to Basium. Evening research between the two of you should improve things.
 
I'm not so sure. Sure, it is good to have an ally to give all your cities and settlements (which become normal cities under his control), but if you only have a few supercities then losing one of those will hurt a lot more. (If the gate could be built in Settlements then this would be absolutely awesome.) The city Basium takes will lose its larger city radius, and have trouble supporting itself when he first takes over. A lot of times it seems like his city doesn't


I usually prefer summon Basium when playing as the Khazad. Losing a city means more gold per city, and they can usually build the gate faster anyway. It is probably best to use an army of Soldiers of Kilmorph to rush build the Mercurian Gate in one of your smaller and more distant cities. The Khazad normally wouldn't want to conquer too much (although their high production means they probably could if they wanted to) because of financial concerns, but if you gift all conquered cities to Basium that is not a problem.


(While you can gift cites to your permanent allies, they won't always accept. If their economy is bad and/or the city is too distant then it will be listed in Red, so you can't offer it to them.)
 
psychoak said:
If you're borderline ******** I guess it's not something I can fault you for, but your arrogant assumptions are the height of stupidity. Perhaps you could leave the replies to those with intellect?

Moderator Action: Keep the discussion civil.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Click to expand...

Perhaps, you should look at the truth of my statements and quit thinkin I'm jus bein arrogant. (While you're at it, quit tryin to insult me. It doesn't make you look smart. Jus a fact.) And my assumptions are true. Like it or not, any mathematician (or engineering student, which is wat I am) can tell you probability will do somethin you hate if you keep repeatin things. And, frankly, most players have a strategy that works for them and use it repetively. Maybe they mix it up by summonin Basium or changin civs. But they fall into a pattern of sorts, which means sooner or later the pattern backfires. That's why I made those assumptions, not because I'm arrogant. But if you still think I'm arrogant, such is your prerogative.
 
I've found he takes babysitting a while. Still it's worth it, if the game is close. Angels can tilt the scales, and keeping him alive means some heavy backup once Basium's national units come out. Played Mercurians today for the first time, pretty nice. Though seemed like Basium himself is a lot more fragile than most hero units. Even at ~99% tended to loose at least half life from battles.
 
Justicar333 said:
Even at ~99% tended to loose at least half life from battles.
Click to expand...

Hmm...interestin. Most heroes will lose nothin at say 65%. I wonder why Basium loses half at 99%. Maybe there's somethin in the code to fix that.
 
True statements are not insults.

Do you go into every thread discussing the worth of a particular tactic and bash the poster for always using the same strategy? How about you counter my assumptions, something that no one has done yet instead of just telling me I'm predictable and suck without having any idea what you're talking about?

I'm guessing my favorite moderator will be reading this, ban me if you want, but he's an idiot.

Magister, is this against AI or another player that you find Basium worth it as Khazad? I've never managed to get him at immortal or deity, someone always beats me to the punch when I try. Against my brother, I found it to be catastrophic, it was just more territory for me to defend, no help at all on the offense.
 
I've never actually played a single multiplayer game (excluding hotseat games)

I never really play above Prince either. (I'm more about modding the game to make it more fun than trying to actually win or become a more competitive player.)

Also, I tend to mod Basium (and Hyborem) to be much stronger than usual, so it probably is less useful in an unmodded game.
 
:(

Anyone not get their ass kicked against dangerous opponents when using Basium in any situation?
 
Both the infernals and the angels should get planar gate-like improvements that spawn units for them at random for free. That would make them powerful enough to be agressive, and would have the added benefit of linking their power to the Armageddon Counter.
 
I built the Mercurian Gate in my 7th city yesterday as the Grigori. I was researching Gunpowder and it went from 8 to 18 turns.

One dumb move was building the Gate in a city with a religion.

As a result, Basium keeps trying to research the Order at 500+ turns. I ask him to switch to something else I am researching (even though there is zero impact on reducing research time), and he does. However, a few turns later he is back to the Order even though I am still in the middle of researching Gunpowder. :(

Also, just terrible AI. Basium has not moved out of his city for over 200 turns. He is piling up many Angels in the three cities in the civ, but they also seem to be glued as defenders - even though there are no imminent threats. I have a couple of wars on my hands and no support from my ally.

Oh well, you summon Basium, you just have to expect this AI.

One other thing, for some reason, he continues to gift resources to me which I gifted to him some time ago and already have plenty of instances. :confused:

PS. Not being able to build Shadows as the Grigori still blows!:p
 
Basium is too trigger happy, especially considering his total lack of military effectiveness. He makes you fight all his wars for him. It's like he's the little dog who bites at absolutely everyone, and then runs behind mommy at the first sign of trouble.

If he were more intelligent about his targets, say by starting at the weakest AV civs and then working his way up to the big fries rather than going everyone at once, maybe he'd be more tolerable.

Hyborem seems like a genius by comparison.
 
Well, you can control the targetting for him. He auto-declares war if you are at peace for 20 turns as I recall. So you just have to declare before he does.
 
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