Battle of Midway

No they couldn't have. Because we had B-17s and they had short range bombers and a tiny airfield to work with.
And without carriers, you cannot bring fighter escorts with them. And they and park a fleet of a few aircraft carriers complete with dozens of fighters and bombers anywhere they want.

There is no way a force on Midway can control a force in Hawaii. They are a long way apart, and you can fit 100s of times more force on Hawaii. They wanted Midway for a stepping stone to work on taking Hawaii, not as the final goal.
But all of that assumes Naval Superiority in the first place in order to reinforce the Hawaiian Islands. You CAN fit a force 100s of times larger, but it doesn't MATTER if those forces cannot get there, and cannot be supplied if they were there.
 
And that still doesn't buy much time

Ship Keel laid Launched Commissioned Decommissioned
USS Essex (CV-9) April 1941 July 1942 December 1942 June 1969 Scrapped (June 1975)
USS Yorktown (CV-10) December 1941 January 1943 April 1943 June 1970 Museum (October 1975)
USS Intrepid (CV-11) December 1941 April 1943 August 1943 March 1974 Museum (August 1982)
USS Hornet (CV-12) August 1942 August 1943 November 1943 June 1970 Museum (July 1989)
USS Franklin (CV-13) December 1942 October 1943 January 1944 February 1947 Scrapped (August 1966)
USS Ticonderoga (CV-14) February 1943 February 1944 May 1944 September 1973 Scrapped (September 1975)
USS Randolph (CV-15) May 1943 June 1944 October 1944 February 1969 Scrapped (May 1975)
USS Lexington (CV-16) July 1941 September 1942 February 1943 November 1991 Museum (June 1992)
USS Bunker Hill (CV-17) September 1941 December 1942 May 1943 January 1947 Scrapped (May 1973)
USS Wasp (CV-18) March 1942 August 1943 November 1943 July 1972 Scrapped (May 1973)
USS Hancock (CV-19) January 1943 October 1944 April 1944 January 1976 Scrapped (September 1976)
USS Bennington (CV-20) December 1942 February 1944 August 1944 January 1970 Scrapped (January 1994)
USS Boxer (CV-21) September 1943 December 1944 April 1945 December 1969 Scrapped (February 1971)
USS Bon Homme Richard (CVA-31) February 1943 April 1944 November 1944 July 1971 Scrapped (March 1992)
USS Leyte (CV-32) February 1944 August 1945 April 1946 May 1959 Scrapped (March 1970)
USS Kearsarge (CV-33) March 1944 May 1945 March 1946 February 1970 Scrapped (September 1970)

And that's just the Essex class Fleet carriers.
 
Theres nothing the IJN could have done to buy much time. But there was much it to cut off Pearl Harbor without sending a single Naval Infantryman there.
 
They can't park fleet carriers anywhere, because they can't remain in the field particularly long - they have to return to base after a while, and counting the time to get to and from there, you'll keep carriers on station a few weeks at most.

Plus, there would be an immense difference between Pearl Harbor and further raids on Pearl. I don't know that Japan could have stood THAT much of a chance to destroy the base later in 1942 against the air forces based there.

That said, they would definitely have better odds than if they tried to actually capture the island, since they'd have to cripple the base (to limit the flow of American supplies, and the ability of US ships to intervene directly) anyway, on top of every other difficulty.
 
Well its like all Axis strategic decisions in the war. Its a choice between a bad decision, and a terrible decision. :lol:
 
Yeah. The only choice between a good decision and a terrible decision was the choice whether to confront the west.

And even then, their own rhetoric would have made peacefulness an undesirable option.
 
Yeah. The only choice between a good decision and a terrible decision was the choice whether to confront the west.

And even then, their own rhetoric would have made peacefulness an undesirable option.
Not even Rhetoric. By this time they were knee deep in China, if you want to go back to when they had a choice of good looking options you'd have to backpeddel to...1931 or so?
 
Well its like all Axis strategic decisions in the war. Its a choice between a bad decision, and a terrible decision. :lol:

Good point

There's only one real way the Axis could've won WW2 and that's if Japan invaded Russia to help the Germans... and even then it's a long shot
 
Good point

There's only one real way the Axis could've won WW2 and that's if Japan invaded Russia to help the Germans... and even then it's a long shot
Meh, there are a few possibilities. Once both the US and Russia were involved though it was pretty much all she wrote. If Rommel could have pulled off his coup, however, things could have turned out differently for Europe.
 
Had Germany not declared war on either the USSR or the US, they would have been fine. Japan sealed it's fate the day it committed to war with the US.
 
Had Germany not declared war on either the USSR or the US, they would have been fine. Japan sealed it's fate the day it committed to war with the US.

Debatable also...

Many revisionists have come to the conclusion that the USSR would have invaded Germany by 1942 anyway. There was too much tension between the states to have maintained the status quo.

A. Hitler said:
The Soviet Minister for Foreign Affairs then demanded Germany's clarification of an agreement to the following four questions:

Point One was Molotoff's question: Was the German guarantee for Rumania also directed against Soviet Russia in case of attack by Soviet Russia on Rumania?

My answer: The German guarantee is a general one and is unconditionally binding upon us. Russia, however, never declared to us that she had other interests in Rumania beyond Bessarabia. The occupation of Northern Bukovina had already been a violation of this assurance. I did not therefore think that Russia could now suddenly have more far-reaching intentions against Rumania.

Molotoff's second question: That Russia again felt menaced by Finland. Russia was determined not to tolerate this. Was Germany ready not to give any aid to Finland and above all immediately to withdraw German relief troops marching through to Kirkenes?

My answer: Germany continued to have absolutely no political interests in Finland. A fresh war by Russia against the small Finnish people could not, however, be regarded any longer by the German Government as tolerable, all the more so as we could never believe Russia to be threatened by Finland. Under no circumstances did we want another theatre of war to arise in the Baltic.

Molotoff's third question: Was Germany prepared to agree that Russia give a guarantee to Bulgaria and send Soviet Russian troops to Bulgaria for this purpose in connection with which he-Molotoff-was prepared to state that the Soviets did not intend on that account, for example, to depose the King?

My answer: Bulgaria was a sovereign State and I had no knowledge that Bulgaria had ever asked Soviet Russia for any kind of guarantee such as Rumania had requested from Germany. Moreover, I would have to discuss the matter with my allies.

Molotoff's fourth question: Soviet Russia required free passage through the Dardenelles under all circumstances and for her protection also demanded occupation of a number of important bases on the Dardenelles and Bosphorus. Was Germany in agreement with this or not?

My answer: Germany was prepared at all times to agree to alteration of the Statute of Montreux in favor of the Black Sea States. Germany was not prepared to agree to Russia's taking possession of bases on the Straits.

Declaring war against the USA was stupid and needless, though.
 
Ok. A war between the Soviet Union and Germany while Germany had not concluded some form of piece with GB was, at the very least, the most Germany had the strength to take on.

So 2 points: It's not a certainty that the USSR would have attacked Germany, and if they had then Germany probably would have been better off because Germany's offensive was stopped in large part by Germany's being unprepared to fight a multi year war in Russia.
 
If Hitler were smart, he would have actually toned down the rhetoric, tried his best to remake himself as a 'reformer', maybe even end the occupation in certain countries - places like France where his puppet regime wasn't strong enough to oppose him anyway - and waited for Stalin to invade. If he played his cards right, he may have been able to get Britain and the US to enter the war on his side.

I don't like his odds while Churchill and Roosevelt live, however. He would have been forced to plan something like this years in advance, which he didn't. That means toning down his anti-Jew laws and speeches, something I doubt he'd ever do. He never made any allowance for the fact that Great Britain might not capitulate. Without the UK on his side, his entire plan broke down.
 
If Hitler were smart, he would have actually toned down the rhetoric, tried his best to remake himself as a 'reformer', maybe even end the occupation in certain countries - places like France where his puppet regime wasn't strong enough to oppose him anyway - and waited for Stalin to invade. If he played his cards right, he may have been able to get Britain and the US to enter the war on his side.
Er...France didn't have a puppet regime. The regime they had opposed the Germans as much as possible, considering their military situation.
 
Er...France didn't have a puppet regime. The regime they had opposed the Germans as much as possible, considering their military situation.
I was referring more to Petain, Laval and Darlan than the actual bureaucracy of Vichy, which was certainly anti-German. There was no need for France to surrender. She actually could have won, albeit after a long a hard war. But the longer France holds out, the more and more public support in the US hardens against Germany, the more confident Stalin is in being able to take Germany himself, etc.. Could have been interesting, now that I'm thinking of it.
 
l...o...l.
Explain why France needed to surrender? De Gaulle and Reynaud both planned a redoubt in Brittany, followed by guerrilla warfare and utilisation of the empire. Not to mention the offer of including France in the United Kingdom, something Petain refused and Reynaud and De Gaulle were both ecstatic about.
 
Explain why France needed to surrender? De Gaulle and Reynaud both planned a redoubt in Brittany, followed by guerrilla warfare and utilisation of the empire. Not to mention the offer of including France in the United Kingdom, something Petain refused and Reynaud and De Gaulle were both ecstatic about.
Because the entire French army was shattered after Dunkirk. Planning a hasty line of defense at Brittany might have held that small patch of French territory for a few weeks at most, before the German army smashed through that too.

As for the offer of including France in the United Kingdom, France had little to gain from it, and had it gone forward, it would have been an entirely symbolic measure, as there is still the slight matter of the German Army occupying all of France.
 
Because the entire French army was shattered after Dunkirk. Planning a hasty line of defense at Brittany might have held that small patch of French territory for a few weeks at most, before the German army smashed through that too.

As for the offer of including France in the United Kingdom, France had little to gain from it, and had it gone forward, it would have been an entirely symbolic measure, as there is still the slight matter of the German Army occupying all of France.
De Gaulle and Reynaud were planning a redoubt before Dunkirk. And yes, the incorporation of France into the UK would have been entirely symbolic, but a symbol was what the French people needed at that point. It would have been a sign that the British weren't abandoning them, that they considered them brothers and equals, and would be back to save them.

While such a redoubt would have only enabled mainland France to hold out for a few more weeks, you're forgetting that a France that doesn't surrender is a France with a fleet on the British side, as opposed to neutral and potentially hostile, then destroyed. That fleet would enable the French to establish an absolutely impregnable defence of North Africa and the empire in general, which, combined with the forces of Britain, fighting co-ordinated battles with De Gaulle, who few would argue wasn't a brilliant man in command, could have kicked Rommel out of North Africa much quicker. Knowing their government had never surrendered, the French people would likely have resisted even harder.

I've already mentioned the wild card of the US. The longer France holds out, the more time Churchill and Reynaud have to lobby for US intervention. One major reason the US stayed out of the war and Roosevelt despised De Gaulle was because he stupidly admired Petain, and felt he was the best chance for France's survival.

To conclude, you haven't given a single reason why France had to surrender, and I've given quite a few as to why she not only didn't have to, but shouldn't have done so. Losing an army is no reason to surrender. Losing your homeland is no reason to surrender. If you can't possibly win, then surrender is preferable to annihilation, but France could have won. If you consider De Gaulle Reynaud's rightful successor, then in a way it did, albeit much later than it should have.
 
De Gaulle and Reynaud were planning a redoubt before Dunkirk. And yes, the incorporation of France into the UK would have been entirely symbolic, but a symbol was what the French people needed at that point.
No, they needed about a million men, and arms to supply them.

While such a redoubt would have only enabled mainland France to hold out for a few more weeks, you're forgetting that a France that doesn't surrender is a France with a fleet on the British side, as opposed to neutral and potentially hostile, then destroyed.
By that reasoning, Germany had no reason to surrender in May of 1945, because it could have sent its fleets to aid Japan. :lol:

To conclude, you haven't given a single reason why France had to surrender, and I've given quite a few as to why she not only didn't have to, but shouldn't have done so. Losing an army is no reason to surrender. Losing your homeland is no reason to surrender.
Again. Then by your reasoning, Germany had no reason to Surrender in 1945.
 
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