Battlefield Asia: The Asian answer to the Ancient Meditarrean Mod..

[ShiroKobbure]

post 93 is the scenerio "snap shot"
post 36 is normal game

 

[Blue Monkey]

I dont like the Yuga idea
its Indian, I think its better to have an English names, since English is neutral because non of the civs are english and because Im sure most of the people here play civ in English.
Also they dont really mean anything related to time
Satya Yuga or Krita Yuga - dhyana (meditation)
Treta Yuga - yajna (sacrifice)
Dvapara Yuga - archana (worship)
Kali Yuga - daana (gifts)

post 93, is asia in a timeframe of 200ad-600ad mostly focusing on 300ad.

Read a little more carefully; they are indeed ages. You can find schools of thought (posted online) on the precise year we entered the current Kali Yuga. The four attributes you listed refer to the highest level of activity available for common humanity to relate to the divine. If it's desired to avoid the flavor of any specific Asian culture, use the English posted above: Golden Age, Silver Age, etc.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

1. In the highest yuga, the great majority of the people can experience spirituality by direct intuitive realization of truth. The veil between the material and the transcendent realms becomes almost transparent. According to Natya Shastra, there is no Natya performances in the Krita Yuga because it is a period free from any kind of unhappiness or misery. Satya Yuga is also called the Golden Age.
2. Treta Yuga is the mental age, mental power is harnessed, men are in power, and inventions dissolve the illusion of time. (Inventions are characteristic of both Dvapara and Treta yugas.)
3. In Dwapara Yuga, science flourishes, people experience the spiritual in terms of subtle energies and rational choices, inventions are abundant, particularly those that dissolve the illusion of distance (between people and between things), and power is mostly in the hands of women. The end of this age is associated with the death of Krishna, and the events described in the Mahabharata.
4. In the lowest phase, Kali Yuga, most people are aware only of the physical aspect of existence, the predominant emphasis of living is material survival, and power is mostly in the hands of men. People's relationship with the spiritual is governed predominantly by superstition and by authority.

I rather have age names that can apply to the real word and have a reason for the name. As in ancient medievil industrial and modern. Rather than a name based off spiritual believe and thought

 

[himasaram]

-Korea would be 3 kingdoms. Taiwan and the philipeans would be the same.

Three Koreas might be an overkill for the scale of this scenario, no?

One alternative could be to have one "Unified Silla" occupying most of the Korean peninsula, and one "Balhae" in modern far eastern Russia.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

i dont like it, but i think we have to ^ ^;;
it would be too packed, too hard to think of UUs, and i dont want to make 3 korean heads ^ ^;; so its good

 

[Blue Monkey]

This is offered only in the spirit of discussing what is appropriate to an Asian mod; not at all to argue. The concept of Yugas did indeed originate in India, but is also part of Tibetan and other cultures influenced by Hindu / Buddhist thought. As I posted above, if you don't want culture specific names, use Golden Age, etc.

As to real world attributes of the Yugas:
Satya Yuga - No Writing, No temples at beginning of Age, No kings. people live in peace. (sounds like beginnning of Civ3 to me).
Treta Yuga - Rise of rulers. Beginning of invention.
Dwapara Yuga - Science flourishes. inventions abundant, especially those affecting distance (faster ships, rail, flight). Universal Sufferage. This Yuga climaxes in a world-wide war (Mahabharata).
Kali Yuga - totalitarian governments (Communism). Emphasis on material progress. Universal conflict and chaos between nations.

The Yugas are a cycle which end with the restoration of the Satya Yuga. Civ3 hopefully ends with the world unified under the player as a chakravartin (universal ruler).
definitions of names: Satya - adhering to original or ultimate truth; Treta - three, refers to the three fires (worship, cooking, smithing); Dwapara - doubt, uncertainty; Kali - strife, evil genius, discord (named after the goddess that personifies these qualities).

 

[rujikin]

You should make it very 8 player compatable, to where if one person starts on an island they also get a ship to start with... otherwise people on the mainland would dominate those at sea

 

[ShiroKobbure]

i havent seen the map yet, but i dont believe that anyone starts on a small enough island that cannot build atleast 2 cities. Maybe the ryukyus. But the advange of starting on an island, is nothing can invade until marines. But maybe islanders trade off one starting unit for a boat.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Were there any ancient amphious assaults in Asia shiro? Like for example, a coastal raid by the Wako pirates?

 

[ShiroKobbure]

yes, its not that hard to attack from the sea, the Japanese samurai invaded okinawan islands in the early 1600s. Think about the greek wars. And Romans, Greeks, and Carthage fighting for scilly. but it's just the way civ 3 works.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

No reason to stick with that in the mod. Thats one thing I changed in my Heart of Destiny Mod, the addition of earlier froms of Amphious units like Buccanears, Continental Marines and Doughboys.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Were there any ancient amphious assaults in Asia?

I know the infamous Dragon Fleet carried quite a military complement to reinforce trade negotiations ( I believe they even helped the locals establish more favorable governments) although I don't know if they used tactics we would call amphibious assault.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Come on everyone, lets pick up the pace...

 

[Blue Monkey]

Come on everyone, lets pick up the pace...

If I've dropped the baton on some research/background question, hand it off again. I've seen you and Shirou both posting elsewhere; did you guys lose interest, or just taking a "Spanish Pause"?

 

[ShiroKobbure]

well we still need a tech map, someone to make the requested wonders and a map. I am praticing making units so we can have all the units needed in this mod. And at the moment I dont feel like making heads.
Everything else is done.
So if you want to Make a tech tree, or make some wonder splashes, not just crappy googled images. Or find the map we are supposed to be using
then its going to be quiet around here

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Yeah what Shiro said...

 

[Blue Monkey]

Tech Tree - Wonders - Maps

Well, I've never made a tech-tree, and I'm not hep to any prior discussion on what you're looking for (I'm still working my way through thread one). About the most I could contribute here would be to a discussion of what would be historically/ culturally accurate and interesting in terms of game play; but in terms of practical results- not my forte.

Is there a firmed up working-list of wonders? I have no illusions about my limited skill as an artist; about the best i could manage would be some crappy A9'd images bashed together with scans from antiquated library books and then smeared around in some PD open-source image converter. So I'm out on this one too as far as putting anything finished in your hands.

Maps ...maps ...hmmm. I love maps, I was even a cartographer in MI briefly about 30 years ago. This I can contribute to in practical terms. Maybe.

1. I'm only on Macs right now. You are probably aware of the Mac Civ Editor's limitations: Vanilla Civ3 only, no possibility for starting location placement. The new and improved Mac Civ3 "Complete" has no editor at all on the other hand.
2. I will ask knowledgeable people on the Mac forae like AlanH about the possibility of migrating a map from Mac/Vanilla to C3C; this would at a minimum give you a map to build later work on.
3. I fully expect to be building a PC system within the next month or two for career-related use at home. Which is really only using a real-world excuse to get access to a decent Civ3 editor and the utilities available around here. If/when this happens I can build you a full blown map, with custom graphics, resources, startup locations, etc. and would really enjoy doing so.

So here is what I propose to do, if you want me to:

1. Use the resources to which I've already got access to initially design a map.
2. Make a Vanilla Civ map that can become a basis for later work.
3. When I get a workable system up and running develop a fully implementable map.

Assuming you want me to do this, here are two initial questions:

• What size map do you want (standard? huge? maybe you have a dimension in mind?)
• What specific geography do you want covered (how far N,S,E,W ie up to Arctic circle? south to Australia?)

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

1. I'm not sure, I think some sort of diamension map which is large enough for empire building but not large enough to slow the game down to a crawl. I'm thinking something like the Conquests maps would work well

2. It should match Shiro's map on the first or second post, also on the first page as well I believe. Its basically as far west as India, and as far Southeast as Indonesia. The map should go only as far north as Mongolia or Northern Japanese islands(Okinowa?)

 

[Blue Monkey]

... large enough for empire building ... something like the Conquests maps would work well

OK; I'll take look at the Conquests to get a sense of size. You mean the Conquests included with the game, not the COTM, right? This is actually a later step the way I approach map making; first is getting the coverage I want, then I can stretch or shrink it to fit the size I want.

.... It should match Shiro's map

The map I found was in post 36. From that it looks like you want coverage from Bactria (Afghanistan/Kushan Empire) in the west, to New Guinea in the east, and from a little north of Manchuria to just south of Sumatra and Java; intentionally excluding Mesopotamia and Australia. This sounds about right. I notice that the northwest part of the map will have a huge area that historically was nomad territory without strongly developed civilizations. Is it the intention to make that area resource poor and limited in how lush it is for settling?

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Yep I mean the Conquest scenerios in the Conquest expansion...you get the idea..

I think it should maybe be made so that that area can't be settled somehow, many maybe the terrain blocked in places with mountains and have settlers wheeled to prevent them from entering. Also LOTS of barbarian camps should be there...