Bazooka discussion

[Dux1]

What was the thinking behind this unit? I honestly can't figure it out.

• It's described in the Civlopediea as the WWII anti-tank weapon that bears its name IRL, but...
• It's not an anti-tank weapon. It's a ranged weapon. This is historically dubious since a bazooka has far less range than, say, an anti-tank gun or even a simple rifle IRL.
• It comes out at Nuclear Fission. What nuclear fission has to do with an old anti-tank weapon, I couldn't say. Moreover, its placement this late in the tech tree inappropriately moves it away from the other WWII units.
• It has 85 strength and 85 ranged damage without any bonuses toward armored units that I could find. If the goal was to represent a real-world WWII-era personal anti-tank weapon, this is wholly inappropriate.

 

[Talcove]

I'm quite certain that the goal was to give the ranged line an appropriate finisher, rather than merging the Machine Gun into the Infantry line, via the Mechanized Infantry unit. It may not make much historical sense, but this is a time where gameplay trumps realism, and gladly so, may I add.

 

[werothegreat]

I just wish the range didn't drop down to 1 at Gatling Gun. Anyone know why the devs did that?

 

[Talcove]

I just wish the range didn't drop down to 1 at Gatling Gun. Anyone know why the devs did that?

Balance, no doubt. Realistically, it would be the other way around, with Bows and Crossbows having a range of one, and Gatling Guns and Machine Guns would have a range of two. However, since the latter are more powerful they get their range nerfed. If you want an example of what two-range Gatling Guns and Machine Guns would be like, just check out England. Build up Longbowmen and upgrade them to Gatling Guns. Seriously, those things are overpowered.

Now, I don't know for certain, but I'd assume that Bazookas also have a range of one tile. Just imagine England, with their two-tile tange Bazookas. Man, those things are going to mess your stuff up!

 

[Rajjah]

I just wish the range didn't drop down to 1 at Gatling Gun. Anyone know why the devs did that?

Because ranged units > melee units. Artillery already is way overused, without this range reduction that would be the only thing anyone uses besides artillery and bombers :-\

 

[s0nny80y]

Balance, no doubt. Realistically, it would be the other way around, with Bows and Crossbows having a range of one, and Gatling Guns and Machine Guns would have a range of two. However, since the latter are more powerful they get their range nerfed. If you want an example of what two-range Gatling Guns and Machine Guns would be like, just check out England. Build up Longbowmen and upgrade them to Gatling Guns. Seriously, those things are overpowered.

Now, I don't know for certain, but I'd assume that Bazookas also have a range of one tile. Just imagine England, with their two-tile tange Bazookas. Man, those things are going to mess your stuff up!

England and +1 range long bow men to machine gun IS deadly. A scout turned bowman turned long bowman then machine gun is a death machine. A three tile ranged bazooka makes it more durable and powerful than mobile artillery, minus a three tile move range for a two tile move instead.

 

[Buccaneer]

Have you ever had an army of Artillery, Gatling Gun and a couple Cavalry units? One to hurt anything within range, one to provide an impenetrable line of defense (protecting said Artillery) and the latter to mop up and take cities. Very powerful and you want to make Gatling Guns even more overpowered?

 

[ProfessorPhobos]

I really wish they'd called it something else.

 

[Talcove]

Have you ever had an army of Artillery, Gatling Gun and a couple Cavalry units? One to hurt anything within range, one to provide an impenetrable line of defense (protecting said Artillery) and the latter to mop up and take cities. Very powerful and you want to make Gatling Guns even more overpowered?

They're powerful when they first come around, yes. However, by the time you've got Mech Infantries they, and Machine Guns, become rather useless. The Bazooka unit aims to fix that.

 

[Ryoga]

Have you ever had an army of Artillery, Gatling Gun and a couple Cavalry units? One to hurt anything within range, one to provide an impenetrable line of defense (protecting said Artillery) and the latter to mop up and take cities. Very powerful and you want to make Gatling Guns even more overpowered?

I'd rather have more artillery than gatling guns honestly. I see no much point in the latter.

 

[iRule]

If they called it "Javelin" or "TT missile" it would make sense and would fit the gamestyle... the whole bazooka thing is senseless.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

As much as i'd love to say the Bazooka is a ridiculous unit, we already have the GDR.

To be perfectly honest, endgame warfare is usually a mop up job. I'm glad they've gone with a little more off the wall choices like the GDR to switch things up and give it a more jovial feel rather than the grind it all to often can devolve into. If anything, they should have gone more sci-fi with this unit, but i guess there would be too large a tech gap then between it and the machine gun.

 

[Ryoga]

To be perfectly honest, endgame warfare is usually a mop up job.

Which is why I don't quite get what I'm supposed to do with this bazooka. 2 moves and 1 range when I have tanks, bombers, battleships and destroyers? Why?!

I still don't get what I'm supposed to do with marines considering that I can use naval units to conquer anyway.

At least para troops have been improved, they can now paradrop 9 tiles away.

 

[hr_oskar]

The flavor of the unit mainly seems to appeal to popular imagination without much grounding in military history. Sadly that's been a common thing in Civ, or just computer games in general.

As for the balance issue of gatling gun range 1, I think the range 2 of early ranged units is the fundamental reason why they're not balanced. So yes I agree that range 2 gatlings would be unbalanced, but then that's the case with all the bow units anyway. The only logic I can see with range 2 bows is that the designers wanted us to have a line of melee in front of the bows who would act as support units; but for that to be balanced the range 2 bows really should be doing a lot less damage to prevent them being spammed over melee as is now the best way to play. I'm impressed with everything about BNW except the fact that range vs melee imbalance hasn't been addressed.

 

[Buccaneer]

They're powerful when they first come around, yes. However, by the time you've got Mech Infantries they, and Machine Guns, become rather useless. The Bazooka unit aims to fix that.

Just like with most units that come before the newer ones, if they are significantly promoted, they can hold their own esp. with proper placements. But that's why science remains to be king, so if they effectiveness of any unit reduces, you have the techs to keep up, replace and gain superiority. No need to add ridiculous bonuses to units when they have their time and function.

 

[PostConsumerWat]

warfare changes from ancient times into modern times... if they focused on the dynamics of ranged weaponry, it could fubar the game... maybe archers should run out of ammo or something

 

[SamBC]

Personally, I'd have preferred a generic name, rather than naming it for one specific weapon - but then again, bazooka as a term has become rather genericised.

 

[gunnergoz]

The bazooka unit represents modern foot infantry that has to defend urban centers and terrain choke points from mechanized infantry and armored (tank) units. As noted, it could be called something else, but unsophisticated players can recognize the bazooka as something to shoot at tanks with from close in, as opposed to say a ranged AT missile system.

 

[Ryoga]

I don't quite get it why you think it would be overpowered to have gatlings with 1 range. If you really think they are too strong then decrease their strength, a ranged unit with no range is useless especially when you get artillery in the picture.

Seriously, sometimes I don't upgrade Xbows because it's more of a demotion than an actual promotion, especially for a city defense. I can use a xbows to damage invading units from behind my city, but with a gatling I cannot, I'd need to move it in front when it will likely be slaughtered.

 

[gunnergoz]

The point of a 1-hex ranged unit is that it can attack without having to leave the defensive position it has. Melee units, once victorious, must advance into the enemy's hex and potentially expose themselves to enemy counter-attacks. This is actually pretty important if you are defending a city from multiple attackers who could gang up on your exposed defender once he was in the open. At the same time, keeping the range to 1 prevents the unit from being used as plain artillery.