futurehermit
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
- 5,724
After reading many many threads on these forums I get the impression that people often have liberalism before guilds. I do myself in most games.
But sometimes I've gone for guilds early and I find it is a really great tech.
Reasons:
1) Knights are sort of like early cavalry. While not as powerful, if you use a mix of flanking 2 and combat 2 knights, you can attack cities without catapults making for a fast invasion taking out multiple cities in a few turns (say with 2 large stacks). I've done this with good success. It's ideal to hit before your opponent(s) get(s) engineering for pikes. Also nice if they don't have elephants.
2) Guilds provides grocers which is a nice health and $ building. When growing large commerce cities under hereditary rule the only limiting factor is health. Granaries + rice/wheat/corn is great, but it only takes you so far. Adding an aqueduct gives you a couple more population, but grocers really help push you over the top early on imo.
3) Puts you one tech away from mercantilism, which gives you a free specialist for each city. This helps you out when then turning around and subsequently lightbulbing liberalism.
You will get liberalism slightly later, especially since machinery negates the lib lightbulb directly, but the payoff (imo) is being able to expand your empire sooner, with knights (assuming you have horses/iron which tbh I usually have after conquering one neighbour with axes or catapults), grow your commerce cities even larger in preparation for emancipation, and then setting you up for extra specialists to help with your liberalism and post-liberalism (e.g., printing press, chemistry, astronomy) lightbulbing.
What do you think? Obviously this has even more potential with Spain and Arabia.
But sometimes I've gone for guilds early and I find it is a really great tech.
Reasons:
1) Knights are sort of like early cavalry. While not as powerful, if you use a mix of flanking 2 and combat 2 knights, you can attack cities without catapults making for a fast invasion taking out multiple cities in a few turns (say with 2 large stacks). I've done this with good success. It's ideal to hit before your opponent(s) get(s) engineering for pikes. Also nice if they don't have elephants.
2) Guilds provides grocers which is a nice health and $ building. When growing large commerce cities under hereditary rule the only limiting factor is health. Granaries + rice/wheat/corn is great, but it only takes you so far. Adding an aqueduct gives you a couple more population, but grocers really help push you over the top early on imo.
3) Puts you one tech away from mercantilism, which gives you a free specialist for each city. This helps you out when then turning around and subsequently lightbulbing liberalism.
You will get liberalism slightly later, especially since machinery negates the lib lightbulb directly, but the payoff (imo) is being able to expand your empire sooner, with knights (assuming you have horses/iron which tbh I usually have after conquering one neighbour with axes or catapults), grow your commerce cities even larger in preparation for emancipation, and then setting you up for extra specialists to help with your liberalism and post-liberalism (e.g., printing press, chemistry, astronomy) lightbulbing.
What do you think? Obviously this has even more potential with Spain and Arabia.
). That is nothing to sneeze at, but is not an option either with every leader, map, and opponents.
Elephants are also very situational.
