Begging AI

[Imrahil91]

When I play, I hear the begging AI say things like:
"The Zulu are a threat to us all. Please join us wiping them away!"
"We demand that you cancel your deals with the vile Persians!"
"Charity begins at home. Would you care to give us some?"

I've gotten really tired of this in my latest games (many civs and aggressive AI).I'll get worse relations with many when declaring a war, and with at least one when I stop trading, and I dont wanna give away my newest techs to my rivals....
Since the AI don't ask each other, I think this is very unfair. I will have a hard time bribing, trading techs, alliances, open borders, maps etc. And I will be unpopular in the apolistic castle and the UN.

Is there any way I can play a challanging game with pretty aggressive AI (think they ask more on higher difficulties) without being treated like a barbarian infidel to the AI?

(version 303 with Solver's patch)

 

[Powerslave]

Turn off tech trading. Then they can't ask you to donate tech. You'll still get requests to go to war. If that doesn't do it for you, then turn off diplomacy altogether with Always War. You'll always be at war with every AI in the game, though the AIs will not be at war with each other.

Try Aggressive AI, as well. You may find that the AIs declare war more often and talk less. I haven't tried it, yet, personally. I'm having a bit of fun trying to master diplomacy. After I tire of that (which is happening rapidly), I'll move over to Aggressive AI and try to get better at war.

There's no way that I know of to make the AIs permanently shut up. A mod that causes the AIs to simply declare war, as if you had refused every demand, might be preferable to having them constantly calling me up on the phone, every other turn.

 

[Bhruic]

Yeah. I think you should get positive bonuses from stuff like that. Like if Toku demands I declare war on Augustus (to pick random names), and I decline, while I should get the penalty from Toku, I should get a positive "+1 You refused a request to declare war on us" bonus.

That at least would balance it off.

Bh

 

[Legal_My_Deagle]

In my last game, Tokugawa calls me up and asks me to stop trading with my best trading ally, so I say no. Then he calls me up 1 or 2 turns later and asks me to declare war on them...

Think about that for a second.

It would be nice if they didn't beg so much, and while I am nitpicking the AI, it would be nice if you got more of a bonus than +1 for gifting them a city, or for taking back their city for them in a war and transferring control to them immediatly. Or for defending their cities for them for that matter.

 

[Powerslave]

I might be crazy, but I seem to recall seeing the following, in BtS:

+1 You refused to stop trading with us.

I don't know what causes it to appear, because I don't recall seeing it appear more than a few times, out of all my games. Maybe it's from a mod that I forgot I installed? Who knows. I'll try to take a screenshot.

 

[MrFrodo]

irony FTW!

 

[Blaarg]

I might be crazy, but I seem to recall seeing the following, in BtS:

+1 You refused to stop trading with us.

I don't know what causes it to appear, because I don't recall seeing it appear more than a few times, out of all my games. Maybe it's from a mod that I forgot I installed? Who knows. I'll try to take a screenshot.

That might come as a result of a 'stop trading with civ x' vote coming from the resident of the AP.

I don't think you get a modifier normally if someone just comes up and asks you to stop trading with that civ.

 

[Powerslave]

That might come as a result of a 'stop trading with civ x' vote coming from the resident of the AP.

I don't think you get a modifier normally if someone just comes up and asks you to stop trading with that civ.

Yeah, that sounds likely. I remember seeing some weird diplomatic modifiers since BtS and the Apostolic Palace. Last game, I got Tokugawa Friendly before backstabbing him (he was still sending spies over and getting testy about my deals with the English, so I killed him).

Still, it was fun to see Tokugawa all smiley and friendly.

 

[El Koeno]

In my last game, Tokugawa calls me up and asks me to stop trading with my best trading ally, so I say no. Then he calls me up 1 or 2 turns later and asks me to declare war on them...

Think about that for a second.

It would be nice if they didn't beg so much, and while I am nitpicking the AI, it would be nice if you got more of a bonus than +1 for gifting them a city, or for taking back their city for them in a war and transferring control to them immediately. Or for defending their cities for them for that matter.

What I always try to do, is to pick a few friends (usually based on religion), and treat them well: give them techs, stop trading with their enemies, go to war with them. Sure, it sucks to have to give up a tech every now and then, but you'll get something back if you ask nicely at least some of the time, and you'll have support in wars you fight (though getting that support might cost you something too).

As for any other demands to stop trading/start a war/give techs: I usually don't give in, I'm only after good relations with my friends, screw the rest of the world.

 

[Desert-Fox]

Sometimes it seems that some AI has not interested having good relations with player. They beg absurd things too often. Firstly they want a tech, then ask stop trading with rival(what sometimes causes ethernal "refuses to talk") and then declare war, -3 or sometimes even more penalty... and soon the cycle begins once again. In glance screen AI vs AI had not such kind of penalties... I do not believe that they always agree what others tell them. And even more... it is almost impossible to ask AI to stop trading with your worst enemy... it is always redded out even if he is pleased or friendly with you.

 

[MasrTheEgyptian]

still it's better that what used to happen in CIV III when the AI used to trade techs between themselves for free

 

[DodgyDave]

diplomacy is too screwed up, its hard to have any friends in this game, due to their constant demands on you. I have had same nation AI ask me to declare war on another AI i am on good terms with, some 8 to 10 turns later, he asks again, 8 to 10 turns he asks again and it seemed to continue :/

The penalty for not helping in a war, should max be -1, not cumulative, otherwise its a good way for AI to reduce relations, which in the end tends to mean you are at war with them.

Perhaps they should have a look at modifiers, because if Germany attacks France, then if Germany asks for your support, 3 options, join, stay neutral and refuse, all three should have an effect,

1) Join gives bonus point for Germany and minus point for France.
2) Neutral no effect.
3) refuse, minus point for Germany and bonus point for France.

or if Neutral stand should effect anything, then do it like 3), then give that the 1 negative point max, while join and refuse both gives 2 max.

 

[Desert-Fox]

What's the difference between neutral and refusal? Same as abstain and no?

Everything would be normal if the there would be some measure for AI what you think about him and AI vs AI diplomacy has same rules as player vs AI.

Sometimes I do not really want war but the neigbour is too weak but I can ask tribute only 20gc... no single tech because it is redded out. Perhaps when you fear them they should give it.

 

[DodgyDave]

Neutral is, we dont want to get involved, direct refusal is to get a bonus with the one you dont want to attack as well.

Right now its just, join or refuse, both gives you penalty.

I dont normally ask anything of those around me, its peace and possible trade or war.

 

[Sjaramei]

Don't trade with both? You can still have a decent relationship without open borders. Just give them help/tribute from time to time when they ask and they'll both like you (Given your impressive army camped on their borders that is right? )

Oh, and if someone ask you to join in a war against someone and there is low risk, you should join in. (phony wars are awesome for relationship building )

 

[DodgyDave]

ohh and when they ask you one after the other, to join them again the other one you do what?

Civ dont simulate history that well, because with how Civ works, there would have been world wars, before 1700 AD

I think Diplomacy is broken, there is simple too many penalties placed on a human player.

 

[Sjaramei]

ohh and when they ask you one after the other, to join them again the other one you do what?

Civ dont simulate history that well, because with how Civ works, there would have been world wars, before 1700 AD

I think Diplomacy is broken, there is simple too many penalties placed on a human player.

Most often they ask for you to stop trading first. So don't give them that opportunity, thats my point. Pick your friends and make certain they got a common enemy to beat on, that way you won't get silly demands all the time.

 

[Bhruic]

Ha! I got it to work. Now any time the AI asks me to go to war with someone, and I refuse, I get a positive attitude modifier with whoever I refused to go to war with. The same for stopping trade. Doesn't help with tech demands, but at least if someone's going to hate me because I won't join them in a war, someone else should like me because of it.

Bh

 

[Imrahil91]

Ha! I got it to work. Now any time the AI asks me to go to war with someone, and I refuse, I get a positive attitude modifier with whoever I refused to go to war with. The same for stopping trade. Doesn't help with tech demands, but at least if someone's going to hate me because I won't join them in a war, someone else should like me because of it.

Bh

Can you share that with us please? If it's as easy as installing your patch I'd like to have this too

 

[Bhruic]

Well, it's not as easy or convenient. In order to make this work, I needed to add a couple new "Memory" conditions. That causes a change in the save game format (because it has to save those conditions), so it's incompatible with other games.

I'll probably release it as part of a mod at some point, if I ever get my "personal" one to the point where I think it'd be widely appreciated.

Bh