Best Ancient/Classical Unit

[Sun Tzu Wu]

War Elephants are especially good, because there is no technology to research to reveal them and you need only Hunting to improve an Ivory plot.

So, if you see Ivory on turn 0, you know immediately that an Elepult rush will be possible. This is unlike any rush units that require Horse, Copper, or Iron.

 

[Gumbolt]

Indeed, yet whenever this player (Warlords on Emperor level) gets the combo things fall apart after destroying/capitulating the first civ. Usually find myself behind in tech and hemorrhaging money for units. Even after winning the Liberalism race my tech lead dissipates after choosing Printing Press as the free tech and the "beeline" to Rifling turns into a long slog playing catch-up.

Recall that super players like Seriael said they didn't bother much with Courthouses or most any other improvements except Forges so yours truly would continue cranking out Elepults even with distant cities costing 10-20 maintenance per turn. Isn't there some middle ground when your empire expands to, say, 15-plus cities? Maybe I shouldn't have traded PP my last game but how else to "fill in the blanks" of all those bypassed techs (Metal Working, Machinery, Guilds, etc.)? Had to do Engineering myself anyway since nobody would trade it. Gets really frustrating when you do all the whipping and war-mongering but lose anyway.

Thanks for reading and advance Happy New Year!

Capitulate the first civ?? Hpw late are you leaving this rush? As STW points out you should know very early on if you have ivory. So you can beeline most of the key techs. You would need a reasonable economy early on. E.g Library in capital. Maybe some cottages to speed your way to construction.

Sometimes there is an element of catch up after a rush. So you may start off with 4-5 cities if space is cramped but with a decent stack of 20-30 units you can easily take out 6-7 cities. If you plan it right the Ai you are attacking will pretty much give you all his techs near the end. Like most rushes there is always a period where you are running 100% tax. The point is once you own 10-12 cities your empire is so much stronger once it starts running cottages and specialists over those 12 cities. Not forgetting wealth to help push science.

Well in terms of court houses. Pends on the game the Last Series Game of the month it was probably a mistake to focus on forges. Purely based on fact it was a 90% war game. For each hammer you put into a building is another hammer not going into a unit somewhere. I played a noble club immortal game a few months back. The idea was pretty much all out war. Spamming war chariots for as long as they would last. Then gradually moving onto stronger units only when needed. I was losing huge amounts of gold each turn. On this basis I was whipping court houses where the cost exceeded 10 gold a turn or so. I had domination by mid 500ad or so.

Overall it's a mix of managing your economy and getting units out quicker enough so a rush does not kill your economy. So heavy whipping is assumed. That and picking the right target.

 

[ttfno]

Capitulate the first civ?? Hpw late are you leaving this rush? As STW points out you should know very early on if you have ivory. So you can beeline most of the key techs. You would need a reasonable economy early on. E.g Library in capital. Maybe some cottages to speed your way to construction.

Sometimes there is an element of catch up after a rush. So you may start off with 4-5 cities if space is cramped but with a decent stack of 20-30 units you can easily take out 6-7 cities. If you plan it right the Ai you are attacking will pretty much give you all his techs near the end. Like most rushes there is always a period where you are running 100% tax. The point is once you own 10-12 cities your empire is so much stronger once it starts running cottages and specialists over those 12 cities. Not forgetting wealth to help push science.

Well in terms of court houses. Pends on the game the Last Series Game of the month it was probably a mistake to focus on forges. Purely based on fact it was a 90% war game. For each hammer you put into a building is another hammer not going into a unit somewhere. I played a noble club immortal game a few months back. The idea was pretty much all out war. Spamming war chariots for as long as they would last. Then gradually moving onto stronger units only when needed. I was losing huge amounts of gold each turn. On this basis I was whipping court houses where the cost exceeded 10 gold a turn or so. I had domination by mid 500ad or so.

Overall it's a mix of managing your economy and getting units out quicker enough so a rush does not kill your economy. So heavy whipping is assumed. That and picking the right target.

I agree

 

[ArchGhost]

Favorites:
-Horse Archers for non UU. I like the mobility and the immunity to first strikes which I sorely wish Immortals had >_<
-For UU, Vulture. Axemen are cheap, and an early staple since BW is so important. These boys can do a lot simply because of that +1 base power (I mean, look at War Chariots or Praetorians...)

Best:
-Elephants for non UU. No contest. You can get them much earlier than maces but they have the same base power (no CR though) which is enough to overpower Spears (C1 Shock Elephants vs. C2 Spears = 8.8 vs. 7.8 ), they come along with catapults on the same tech which helps them overcome Longbows and Pikes in cities, and they continue to wreck mounted units all the way up to Cuirs (STFU to knights if you have elephants, heh) , pulling double duty by protecting their own siege without spears. As pointed out before, you can also see Ivory immediately, so there's no planning for a push and then finding out you suddenly don't have horse, bronze or iron for it. You can make the decision with confidence very early and pull it off so long as you control the ivory.

-For UU, I'd say War Chariot. Quechas are nice, but require a nice close target. Immortals may get bonus against archers but aren't immune to first strikes (Protective archers SUCK for Persia) and are weaker at 4 power. War Chariots can take your whole continent with enough whipping, and do better against spears than Immortals. Immortals are only better if you can somehow get Flanking 2 on them, which is only going to happen en masse with a GG or settled instructor, though if you did that you could take them up against even Longbows in enough numbers.

 

[ttfno]

Favorites:
-Horse Archers for non UU. I like the mobility and the immunity to first strikes which I sorely wish Immortals had >_<
-For UU, Vulture. Axemen are cheap, and an early staple since BW is so important. These boys can do a lot simply because of that +1 base power (I mean, look at War Chariots or Praetorians...)

Best:
-Elephants for non UU. No contest. You can get them much earlier than maces but they have the same base power (no CR though) which is enough to overpower Spears (C1 Shock Elephants vs. C2 Spears = 8.8 vs. 7.8 ), they come along with catapults on the same tech which helps them overcome Longbows and Pikes in cities, and they continue to wreck mounted units all the way up to Cuirs (STFU to knights if you have elephants, heh) , pulling double duty by protecting their own siege without spears. As pointed out before, you can also see Ivory immediately, so there's no planning for a push and then finding out you suddenly don't have horse, bronze or iron for it. You can make the decision with confidence very early and pull it off so long as you control the ivory.

-For UU, I'd say War Chariot. Quechas are nice, but require a nice close target. Immortals may get bonus against archers but aren't immune to first strikes (Protective archers SUCK for Persia) and are weaker at 4 power. War Chariots can take your whole continent with enough whipping, and do better against spears than Immortals. Immortals are only better if you can somehow get Flanking 2 on them, which is only going to happen en masse with a GG or settled instructor, though if you did that you could take them up against even Longbows in enough numbers.

Yeah, but immortals I think are just as good! As for the Elephants, of course. I really like vultures, because they are a swordsman, but with a 7.5 against melee (10% city attack is barely anything)!

 

[Gwaja]

My vote is a tie between a War Chariot and a Quechua, assuming we are taking out the Praetorians of course. ^_^

 

[6K Man]

Settler. I doubt you can win the game* without one.

Otherwise, Quecha. And not just on levels Monarch+… you can destroy the world with them on lower levels, thanks to the free Combat promo. War Chariots are great too.

I used to like Vultures, but the problem is that they’re only a plus versus Archers. The reduction in the melee bonus (+25% from +50%) makes the Vulture the same adjusted Strength (7.5) as an Axeman versus melee units, and they don’t get the +10% on city attack that Swords do.

The added strength helps them versus Chariots, but Chariots still eat them for brekky.


*Above Warlord difficulty level and on non-Duel maps.

 

[Snowbird]

Settler. I doubt you can win the game* without one.

Otherwise, Quecha.

1. generate tightly packed map - pangea with high sea level and max opponents (I would go for about emp level - you want opponents to settle the cities)
2. pick proper speed epic (or marathon)
3. roll through few maps for your starting quecha to trash one archer
4. continue doing military stuff until no opposition left.

 

[ttfno]

1. generate tightly packed map - pangea with high sea level and max opponents (I would go for about emp level - you want opponents to settle the cities)
2. pick proper speed epic (or marathon)
3. roll through few maps for your starting quecha to trash one archer
4. continue doing military stuff until no opposition left.

Settler. I doubt you can win the game* without one.

Otherwise, Quecha. And not just on levels Monarch+… you can destroy the world with them on lower levels, thanks to the free Combat promo. War Chariots are great too.

I used to like Vultures, but the problem is that they’re only a plus versus Archers. The reduction in the melee bonus (+25% from +50%) makes the Vulture the same adjusted Strength (7.5) as an Axeman versus melee units, and they don’t get the +10% on city attack that Swords do.

The added strength helps them versus Chariots, but Chariots still eat them for brekky.


*Above Warlord difficulty level and on non-Duel maps.

All of yall are reading my mind!

 

[Bibor]

If I'd have to pick a military unit that is useful throguhout the whole game, it would be Elephants.
Many good things about them: strength 8, can negate its counter-unit of the era (with stables), come at same tech as catapults (thus the combo people mention).
They also upgrade to Cavalry, which is yet another bonus.

Holkan, Dog Soliders and Skirmishers are just below Elephants in my book. Why? Regardless of questionable offensive utility, these units come resourceless, so they are extremely dependable, no matter what the map throws at you. Not having to worry about early aggression and/or barbs is a huge plus in my book.

Don't get me wrong, Egypt, Sumer, Rome all have awesome units and I like them all, but these work only if you have the required resource. Nothing worse than not having horse as Egypt, ugh

 

[ttfno]

If I'd have to pick a military unit that is useful throguhout the whole game, it would be Elephants.
Many good things about them: strength 8, can negate its counter-unit of the era (with stables), come at same tech as catapults (thus the combo people mention).
They also upgrade to Cavalry, which is yet another bonus.

Holkan, Dog Soliders and Skirmishers are just below Elephants in my book. Why? Regardless of questionable offensive utility, these units come resourceless, so they are extremely dependable, no matter what the map throws at you. Not having to worry about early aggression and/or barbs is a huge plus in my book.

Don't get me wrong, Egypt, Sumer, Rome all have awesome units and I like them all, but these work only if you have the required resource. Nothing worse than not having horse as Egypt, ugh

Yep great if you have them, not so great if you don't. I totally agree with the elephants and UUs that don't use resources. Great point!

 

[Ringo Kid]

I think Viking galleys and berserkers are my favorites on water maps. Don't know if they qualify as ancient. On land Horse archers. Power and speed. And a useful upgrade path. Elephants and cats are reliable but too slow.

 

[Bibor]

Elephants and cats are reliable but too slow.

Horse Archer's can't kill longbows. I have nothing against mixing in a few HAs into an Elepult army, though. They come at (pretty much) same time anyway.

 

[rah]

Yep, you can always use a few HAs to sucker spears out of high culture hill cities which will usually save you a more expensive ele.

 

[sampsa]

Horse archers can handle longbows, if you have hordes of them. This might happen during the last 1-2 AIs if you are conquering the map with HAs. Cats for both bombardment and suiciding helps a lot.

I don't understand why the poll bans praetorians, but not quechua.

 

[Ringo Kid]

Whhen I try a Quechua rush they just die ; I must not be doing it right. How many per defender are required or reccomended

 

[sampsa]

Unpromoted quechua vs an unpromoted archer (fully fortified, 20% city defence, non-hill) is 18,3%. With cover it's 29%. So you should probably have around 2,5-3* what the defender has.

They are good because you can produce them right from the start. No need to grow the capital, rather be @size1 for a while to maximize .

 

[rah]

What difficulty level are you playing. Are warriors or archers defending?

 

[sampsa]

What difficulty level are you playing. Are warriors or archers defending?

That's a fair question. Of course, at levels where the AI starts with warriors, quechua rush is no longer a more valid strategy than a warrior rush...

 

[rah]

The free promotion still helps a bit.