Best BTS Warmonger (not counting Rome)

[CivCorpse]

For long-term warmongering, Spiritual > Agg. Since BTS' "default" strategy is to tech to Renaissance+ units, Agg does almost nothing during that period, while Spi does.

I must have missed the memo about a "default strategy". I was under the impression that there wasn't one, but if there was one, it would be Play the map.
Even assuming renaissance troops are the "default" troop of choice, all gunpowder units get C1.

But what's the point of getting 5+ promotions if it's Cavalry v. Longbows?

What's the point in playing at a level when you can have Cavalry vs longbows? If you can do that consistantly at diety, my hat is off to you and your should probably find a harder game to play.

 

[Belisar]

My favorite is Hannibal because CHA is my favorite warmonger trait and his UU is as close as it comes to uncounterable. The fact that his UB is good on most maps and he's FIN really don't hurt him in any way. I mean really warmongering under CHA is just crazy ... you get to play with promotion combos you'd never consider any other way (Anyone ever get themselves an entire stack of CIII/March/Commando Calvary with a non CHA leader)

Commando needs C4, not C3. I'm a fan of commando cav myself, some games when CHA I can even built them, amazing as second invasion stack.
I'm with you on CHA as a great warmongering trait, both for the early eco and the superb promotions, more flexible than AGG.

 

[Gwynnja]

My cavalry never get commando. They either get Combat I/Pinch or Flanking II then Combat I, then usually pinch. Even if they manage to get flanking II, combat I, Pinch, the next two are C II then formation. Withdrawal is just too good to pass up.

 

[Calder]

I would say the best warmongers are those leaders that have both; Traits that can enhance your military, and a Unique Building that either strenghthens your military or helps obtain virtually a second Unique Unit. These being:
Spain with her Citadel giving her extra strong seige along with her Mounted UU.
Celtic Both leaders with their Duns and good warmongering traits
Mongols with their Ger
and to a lesser extent, Vikings with the Trading Post; and Native Americawith the Totem Pole.
So far in my experiences with BTS leaders, Spain has given me my highest Domination score. There have been other leaders I've done well with not mentioned here (Suryavarman, Justinian, Churchill, and my current game as Napoleon), but I rank those as more luck (territory-wise), than anything strategic.

 

[feralminded]

My cavalry never get commando. They either get Combat I/Pinch or Flanking II then Combat I, then usually pinch. Even if they manage to get flanking II, combat I, Pinch, the next two are C II then formation. Withdrawal is just too good to pass up.

I admit my calvary rarely get commando too but that's not the point ... the point is CHA allows amazing flexibility ... specially late game when you have a city which can pump out units with 13+ or more XP. Agg also allows this kind of flexibility but it favors the early game when you don't have a pile of settled GGs.

 

[Belisar]

I admit my calvary rarely get commando too but that's not the point ... the point is CHA allows amazing flexibility ... specially late game when you have a city which can pump out units with 13+ or more XP. Agg also allows this kind of flexibility but it favors the early game when you don't have a pile of settled GGs.

Nahh, 13 you can have in nearly every production city, if you really go for it you can do much better:

Spoiler :

Leading the glorious French, just got 1GG from Fascism and the next one for the important jump to 29XP is just a couple of battles away.
March/Commando- and C4/Flanking2 cav out of the box in 1585AD is fun.

 

[obsolete]

Most players would probably agree that the Roman UU dominating half of the game (the most important half usually) makes Rome the best warmonger civ.

It has been mentioned elsewhere on the forums, that the MAJORITY does not automatically mean RIGHT.

I think this thread really did not have a chance to get on the correct path from the start, since your exclusion of one of the UUs already causes a large shift in bias in what is left.

Anyhow, I guess it does not matter though, since even a look at the Regular BtS threads show that history is repeating again from years ago. People are STILL showing up.. playing Pratts on a newbish map, at a newbish speed setting... then screaming faul at how insanely over-powered they are. LOL.

 

[FidelZandro]

I'd say Ghengis, Asoka Catherine.
For some reason, i'm very focused on warring with cavalry and Cathy's Cossack comes in really handy. UB is useless though.
Ghengis' synergy between UU and UB is just fantastic!
Asoka and war feels contradictive, but as said in previous posts, the synergy with his traits is great. UB is VERY useful for war and UU is one of the best, especially early in the game.

 

[CornPlanter]

Why does everybody talk about Ghengis, as opposed to Ghengis or Khublai? Is Ghengis that better at warmongering than his grandson?

 

[Ai Shizuka]

If I have to pick a mongol leader, Kubilai hands down, for any kind of game.
Captured cities can work the BFC earlier and cheap libraries allow earlier scientists to keep the Keshik economy afloat.

But traits don't really matter for the mongols. Keshiks + Ger are enough.

 

[Hereditary Rule]

If I have to pick a mongol leader, Kubilai hands down, for any kind of game.
Captured cities can work the BFC earlier and cheap libraries allow earlier scientists to keep the Keshik economy afloat.

But traits don't really matter for the mongols. Keshiks + Ger are enough.

I've also generally favored Kublai but this thread is making me want to try Ghengis again.

With all the extra settled generals, Ghengis can have some of the best mounted units in the game. He and Cyrus can get level 4 horses out of the gate at the same time essentially (cyrus needs 8xp), GK needs 10 but has an free +2 from the Ger. IMP will allow you to settle horses faster (unless you choose not settle with them in the inner ring).

 

[madscientist]

Why does everybody talk about Ghengis, as opposed to Ghengis or Khublai? Is Ghengis that better at warmongering than his grandson?

Ghengis can pump out earlier Great Generals for more promotions than Kublai. Kublai has the benefit of the culture pop however, Gramp Genghis can nuetralize that by simply "Taking" Stonehenge!

 

[murph1822001]

Favored UU Vulture
Favored trait CHA
Favored leader Cyrus
Favored UB Citadal (I like super promoted treb/cannon to allow winning wars with virtually no losses)

Unrestricted Leaders I like Boudica/Summeria and Cyrus/Spain

 

[pi-r8]

It has been mentioned elsewhere on the forums, that the MAJORITY does not automatically mean RIGHT.

I think this thread really did not have a chance to get on the correct path from the start, since your exclusion of one of the UUs already causes a large shift in bias in what is left.

Anyhow, I guess it does not matter though, since even a look at the Regular BtS threads show that history is repeating again from years ago. People are STILL showing up.. playing Pratts on a newbish map, at a newbish speed setting... then screaming faul at how insanely over-powered they are. LOL.

To be honest I don't really see much Praet-raving here anymore. I think most players here have tried out the praets on an easy setting, dominated, then tried them again on a harder setting and realized how limited they are.


And yeah, Spain for the win. CR3 cannons plus conquistadors stomps anyone, in the rennaisance.

 

[CivCorpse]

Currently playing a game where GK was my neighbor. Ger+Keshiks are the worst UU/UB in the game when you get an axe between the eyes before HBR. I am playing the Mayans on Huge Marathon with the idea that I would NOT build the GW. I was just gonna peacefully rex and fight the barbs like a man. well GK showed up about 10 tiles away and I knew he would spam cities and grab all the good spots then DOW me. Even worse i saw Jumbos in his BFC. There is no way I wanted to play around with Ger War Elephants...even with my resourceless spearman UU. So I decided he must be Holkan rushed. I researched BW first to chop a barracks while teching Hunting. And low and behold there was copper in the middle of the foodless plains crap desert right between us.( a city site so miserable it is after 1400A.D. and it is still stagnated at Pop4) Chopped a settler and built me some axes (and a few holkans cuz I saw Mongolian chariots). So after completely deforesting my BFC I sent my stack of about 15 axes to Mongolia. Just as he finished building the Great Wall. Yay for me. His capital and one other city were production beasts and I razed everything else because even though i ended up settling in the exact same spots I couldn't afford them. And low and behold but 6 tiles north of the 2nd city i decided to kepp was Bibracte. And So i spammed some more axes and razed every single Celtic city. Like 6 of them. I had a nice pile of CR2 CR3 axes. I even razed Bibracte so i could scooch it over 1. Nice size continent allllll to myself. Never bothered building military until The first AI had astro. Which was after I did. I saved a heap in unit costs and mucho hammers.

Analasys: best warmonger Leader is the one with a big arse stack of axes sitting next to the capital. Fear the Maya death Machine.

 

[popejubal]

The best warmonger for me back in Vanilla was Washington because of his Fin/Org. My biggest problem at the time was not in taking AI cities, but in figuring out how to deal with the large empire that came from conquest.

If I take so many cities with Praetorians that my economy permanently crashes and I lose my empire to my neighbors once all my units desert me (this happened one game early on), then all of the military power in the world isn't going to help me.

depending on the map, I very much like the two Indian leaders because their UU super-worker is able to build quick roads through forest and hill regions. Being able to build roads through difficult terrain makes a very early war much easier to pursue and makes the empire you get at the end of it much more sustainable. I find this even more true now that you need to tech to sailing to allow water routes to enable trade and resource availability.

Later in the game, the Spiritual trait is an enormous help in allowing you to switch between military civics and economy civics. I can start production for 1 turn each on 2 different units, whip each of them and potentially allow the overflow from the first whip to complete a second full unit before the second whipped unit hits the top of the queue. This allows me to move out of Slavery for 5 turns without losing the whip ability during that time. I can also make sure that I'm in XP-granting civics when I'm producing units and then in other civics when I'm taking a few turns to produce buildings. All in all, the ability to make frequent civics changes makes Spiritual a better warmongering trait mid-game than Agressive in my opinion.

 

[Hereditary Rule]

Currently playing a game where GK was my neighbor. Ger+Keshiks are the worst UU/UB in the game when you get an axe between the eyes before HBR. I am playing the Mayans on Huge Marathon with the idea that I would NOT build the GW. I was just gonna peacefully rex and fight the barbs like a man. well GK showed up about 10 tiles away and I knew he would spam cities and grab all the good spots then DOW me. Even worse i saw Jumbos in his BFC. There is no way I wanted to play around with Ger War Elephants...even with my resourceless spearman UU. So I decided he must be Holkan rushed. I researched BW first to chop a barracks while teching Hunting. And low and behold there was copper in the middle of the foodless plains crap desert right between us.( a city site so miserable it is after 1400A.D. and it is still stagnated at Pop4) Chopped a settler and built me some axes (and a few holkans cuz I saw Mongolian chariots). So after completely deforesting my BFC I sent my stack of about 15 axes to Mongolia. Just as he finished building the Great Wall. Yay for me. His capital and one other city were production beasts and I razed everything else because even though i ended up settling in the exact same spots I couldn't afford them. And low and behold but 6 tiles north of the 2nd city i decided to kepp was Bibracte. And So i spammed some more axes and razed every single Celtic city. Like 6 of them. I had a nice pile of CR2 CR3 axes. I even razed Bibracte so i could scooch it over 1. Nice size continent allllll to myself. Never bothered building military until The first AI had astro. Which was after I did. I saved a heap in unit costs and mucho hammers.

Analasys: best warmonger Leader is the one with a big arse stack of axes sitting next to the capital. Fear the Maya death Machine.

Great story.

I swear though in my games, I only have access to copper in the ancient era about 1/3 of the games. Really sucks. There was a thread where someone ran a bunch of tests and found that copper was rarer than horses and iron. Seems to hold true for my games.

 

[Skallagrimson]

In sum I suppose the best trait for warmongering is "human".