Best Goverment

[Old n Slow]

I think that the “Best” government is still an open question. One can get a tech per turn in Fundy (in Despo as well if we want to push the thought), and one can easily field a reasonable army in a democracy with no discord -- I’ve done both.

If one were forced to start in a government and stay there the entire game, great players still differ -- Smash advocates Commy, Cliff wants democracy, Starlifter also wants democracy (but some time back wanted to run a power Fundy).

Key points to keep in mind -- the advanced governments use two food per settler/engineer, so they will be a bit slower at the outset. This is much less of a problem later on, since the lower corruption/waste allows offsets with the citizen placement choices (as well as time to irrigate, build harbors etc.) Aside from the food problem, it makes little sense to stay with a primitive government when an advanced one is available.

I think that Fundy may be the “easiest” to play -- in that there is no discord of citizens; I think that democracy offers the widest variety of options, and has the potential for the fastest growth.

Tips -- for a tech per turn in Fundy, get your cities to celebrate (note the increase in trade arrows) and then ship trucks hither & yon collecting coins and beakers. Keep at least an Einstein in play.

For fielding an army in Democracy, set up a couple of size two cities (one citizen on a mined oil well, other on a mined hill, city space set for no growth) add in a factory (have Hoover’s and JSB of course) -- should be able to support 20+ units (similar story with buffalo & two hills.) Build vet units elsewhere & re-home to this city. SSC, a port, has Shakes & is the home of all the war ships (again vets built elsewhere).

If need be, set up a small district of RR trees & plant a network of ICS type cities to house the land units & air force. Since JSB hits the unhappy status AFTER the unit check (which is why temples won’t get the job done) this is critical for democracy at war (otherwise one can field a unit per city & keep track of the unhappiness that way.)

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I agree that fundy is the easyest to play. I would recomend it to any new player, so they could get the feel of the other aspects of play without having to worry about riots. As for what OnS said about war in demo, I use those tactics to keep my army and especialy navy. In theory, with Bach & CfC, 3 coal and built on mined hill one can suport (with food caravan) (7+7+7+4)(2.5)= around 60 or so units with MPlant & Factory & PPlant. CfC will balance the extra unhappy letting you have three citisens with food root. I have yet to see a natural site occuring with these properties, and it would be even more unlikely to get one with ocean acces, but a whole navy could be suported from such a city. (One would want to defend it with 5 or 6 mech infnatry and fortresses and 2 mech infantry on each coal, to make sure that there is no disbandment watsoever. That kind of defence is probably excesive, but you wouldn't want to loose much of your navy for something that could have been prevented.)

 

[Ace]

If I had to pick and stay with one gov for an entire game, it would have to be one of these two. Both are good govs for the long game. Power Fundy is close to democracy in science, while commie gives you vet spies. Both have the weakness of all your cities and units being vulnerable to bribes! One the other hand, a couple of years ago, I tried a game like this using Democracy. (I used the editor to make a scenerio with demo avail to the human player at the start.)

Maybe a player of Starlifter's abilities might be able to pull it off, but it was way beyond my talents. The support required for all units is davastating and the unhappiness that runs rampant is horrible. Without the happiness wonders, it is almost hopeless just trying to get started. And very slow going, all production and growth is practically cut in half in the early going because of the support. IIRC, I gave it up after reaching about 4 cities. The realization sank in that while demo is great when your civ is prepared for it, trying to build an empire from scratch in demo is almost impossible and it would be a major victory just to achieve retirement. It didn't help that I played on diety with raging hordes! But even playing at King or Prince levels would still be tough. And don't forget, If you cannot control unhappiness, your demo gov falls into anarchy!

If you really want to suffer, you could convince DoM to create a GOTM game that has the human player locked into a democracy for the entire game!

Oops! I forgot to mention that GOTM games don't allow the FCT to be used.

 

[Mr. Guy]

I like Communism
it gives more science than Fundamentalism(i sometimes use that) and i can still do a lot of war at the same time
and the doves sometimes really tick me off

 

[Comrade Pedro]

Comunism rules comrades

 

[HughMungus]

It depends on the situation. I try to get to Communism as quickly as possible and never play Democracy. I play Fundamentalism if I'm at war with another civ and can steal their tech advances or if I'm near the end of the game and have all the techs I need to win (e.g., robotics, stealth).

 

[Comrade Pedro]

when you want to be a really bad guy, then you choose a non freedom government. If you want to be the "pollitical correct" person, then choose the freedom governments, it's easy

 

[Ace]

No, if you want to have more coins than you can spent and tech comming out your ears, you play democracy. And in democracy, all those vet spies are unable to bribe your cities and units!! If you don't care about runing up the future tech score and really building a massive empire and just want to play bloodlust, commie and/or fundy is ok, but if you want to max out the tech tree early and get a spaceship in the air as soon as possible, democracy it the only way to go.

 

[PresidentCaesar]

I prefer win by space race, but I hate how restrictive I have to be in war when I'm running a Democracy. What I normally do in a game is go to Monarchy ASAP, and wait until I've built a suficient road network between my cities and have a good number of happiness improvements and wonders before switching to Democracy. At that point, the vast majority of my units moving around on the map are settlers/engineers and diplomats/spies. I'll bribe a city or two every few turns, and if I need to take a capital or really expensive city, I'll sabotage city walls and take the city with just a handfull of units from a nearby city. I usually only do this with the capital because after that, the other cities are dirt cheap. If the rival city is under a Democracy, I sabotage happiness improvements and watch their government crumble. After I start building the space ship, I switch to Fundamentalism because things really start to heat up and I want to develop some muscle to make sure I win big. The only real disadvantage to Fundamentalism is its slow research, and by this point in the game, that doesn't matter anymore.

In short, I prefer Democracy, but once your tech is where you need it, there's no good reason not to go Fundamentalism.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I can think of a good reason to stay in demo after your reserch is done. Cash and cities. If you are set up for demo, there is no reason to switch. You get anarchy, then revolting cities if your opponant is moderately rich. 70% taxes are very, very good too. At the end, it is even easyer to make war in demo. You can set up more "military bases" and rush build units (or bribe cities). There is just no reason to swich. 8 shields is not that much when you compare it to the 50s and 60s that your industrial cities get.

 

[Andu Indorin]

It's hard to argue against against a full-blown Power Democracy in that it is the one form of government that is able to achieve growth in all areas at one and the same time: extended wars of conquest against all remaining civilizations; plus rapid geographic expansion via the establishment of new cities; with infrastructural growth via the rush building of improvements; and with demographic growth through WLTP day; and still maintain a tech acquisition rate of one tech per turn.

 

[jadelicia]

I have to admit I'm in agreeance to Addiv. I like Fundamentalism the best. I usually have the playfield set on blood wrath vs. spaceships. I try to alternate once in a while by playing a game in spaceship mode, but I end up being motivated to wipe out everyone else anyways...oh well.

 

[BC Horizon]

I prefer to switch to a Monarchy as soon as possible, then go to Republic after that. This is only so I'll have money to rush-buy things that I need during the important development years. Somewhere in the early ADs I go to communism, if possible... Let's face it, it's the best for an intermediate civilization. Then, when you've used the benefits of communism to expand your civilization and bring your neighbors under control, switch to democracy to really rack up the science and money, to get an excellent score at the end.

 

[Old n Slow]

Originally posted by Ace
... I tried a game like this using Democracy. ...

About a year ago I tried a set of forced governemnts from the same start. The differences at around 1AD were +/- a city or so, often offset by a tech or so. The barbarian variances seemed larger than the government types.

Interesting to me was the quick realization that the rush for a better government (guiding the first few tech choices) was no longer in force -- causing a moderate re-think in priorities. Also, the different government types fostered different prioritis at the start -- Democracy calls for Writing ASAP (to use dips as searchers) -- and the value of None units tempts a delay in founding that first city.

I think that a Diety level forced Commy game would work very well as a GOTM; and a King level forced Democracy might be anthing from a serious challege to a cake walk.

 

[Andu Indorin]

Originally posted by Old n Slow
I think that a Diety level forced Commy game would work very well as a GOTM; and a King level forced Democracy might be anything from a serious challege to a cake walk.

A forced Commy game sounds intriguing; but King level and democracy ... I seem to recall trying to play a GOTM at Prince level and getting frustrated with my inability to deal with all those "happy" people for change!

 

[Old n Slow]

Another frustration for those players used to the top levels is the "re-"discovery that the ai is slower getting techs at the lower levels -- the trading partners just aren't there. One has to do more of one's own research at King & lower.

 

[Genshed]

I normally try to go the entire game without
having a war at all - either started by me
or waged against me. Demo works just
fine for this. Each city with two defensive
units and city walls, no offensive units, lots
of happiness improvements - high income
and rapid tech advance.
Admittedly, it is awkward when someone I've
signed a treaty with asks me to go to war - I
usually just give them some gold and they
go away happy.

 

[Nylan]

Democracy in peace, Communisim in war...oh, wait...I'm ALWAYS at war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jadelicia]

Totally in agreeance! I'm bored if I'm not at war with someone.

 

[Colincivmaster]

I think fundamentalism is the best gov for war. Democracy is of course the best overall though.