Best Unit vs Longbowmen?

madmaven

Warlord
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
159
It seems like once the AI gets longbowmen it becomes very hard to take a city. It's a great city defense unit. I was wondering if anyone has had any success against it with a particular unit aquired around the same time period. Is the knight the best chance? Or, is it better to just wait, skip the knight, and go for calvary or grenidier?
 
Hmm around the same time, knight comes much later :/ You could try city raider maceman if you get to it, he should crush the longbowman, after city bombard ofcourse. Any city raider is good thou. Once you bombard, a swordman will also take the city. Ofcourse it helps to soften them up with few suicide catapults. So there isnt really a one unit solution, but if you need one then it would be lots of catapults :)
 
Catapults. Once longbowmen come out, the battles are very much in favour of the defender for a long time. Churn out a bunch of suicide cats and attack with those to weaken the city before you run in with your other units.
 
Catapults. Bombard their defense down to zero. Then suicide catapults until your real units strength is better than theirs. You can win with city raider II swordmen and LOTS of catapults, or knights and a few catapults.
 
The knight will work best against longbowmen alone, but if they have a pikeman or elephant in the city, your knight is probably toast. Anyhow, the answer to nearly all city conquering problems is artillery. Send a few catapults on suicide runs, and the longbowmen will fall to most attacking units (knights, macemen, elephants, etc.).
 
I don't know if it's the best way, but I have been pretty successful with:

1. reducing city defenses with catapults

2. sacrificing some catapults (usually 1 or 2 will do it) to inflict collateral damage. If you have extra collateral damage or city raider promotions, it's even better.

3. Attack with units that either negate/have first strikes and/or units with the promotion that increases attacks against archers.

If you can reduce the strength ratings of the longbowmen by even a small amount with collateral damage catapults, it makes it a lot easier for your other units to take the cities. If I am going to fight a prolonged war against a bunch of longbowmen, I adjust my civics for maximum promotions and crank out as many units as possible.
 
Actually the japanese samurai are pretty affective instead of macemen. They have a +2 first strike which cancels the lonbowman's.
 
I definitely count on catapults to bring down the longbowmen. You may have to lose one or two in the process, but it's often enough to open up an advantage.

Longbowmen thrive on staying behind cities as well. So if you encounter an opponent who is relying too heavily on them, make them pay: pillage their key resources, and go to work on their road system so they can't reinforce any cities. Their longbows can't do **** once they come out from behind the city walls.
 
Thanks a lot, everyone. This is a great forum. It sounds like almost everyone agrees on catipults to soften up and then overtake with a city raider unit.

As someone pointed out, once an enemy Civ gets longbowmen (behind city walls!) the advantage is heavily on the defender. I try for the strategy to expand as far as I can and hopefully by the time I have 10 or 12 cities I also reach longbowmen so I can hold steady. But I've run into the opposite where the AI encroaches early and I'm left with 6 or 8 cities and he throws longbowmen in and I get stuck. So, thanks for the tips to help me counter.

I think that feudal period is where a lot of games are won or lost in the long run--IMHO.
 
While Cats + Knights will soften defenses, you've got a slow-moving army that will lose 2-4 units per assault.

Your best bet in feudalism, IMO, is to avoid war if humanly possible and only go to war for strategic gains that are necessary, or to win a decisive victory to shut down an aggressive opponent.

There are better cusps to prosecute war from. If they've hit longbows, you should really rush to cavalry.
 
Don't forget about Catapults with First Strike. The suicide catapults live longer if they don't give up extra attacks. To me catapults are really two seperate units. Those with First Strike and those that bomb cities. :)

Beside catapults are cheaper than longbowman. Build four catapults, get the fifth free. j/k
 
Catapults are indeed the key to take cities when you do not have tech advance relative to the AIs. In my experience, it is very very important to adopt at least one of the +2 exp civics (Vassalage and Theocracy) at the war time in that 'Longbowmen era'. You will then get your new units with exp 6 or 8 from cities with barracks, which means your new units could have two promotions immediately.

Concerning the promotion of catapults, most of the cases they are used for city attack, so City Raider is the single most important promotion one should consider. I am very sure that City Raider is way better than Drill in a city attack, no matter who the defender is. Another handy promotion is Barrage, which will bring considerable collateral damage. With Barrage II, you make 50% more collateral damage on the suiside attack. Usually, I have a Barrage II catapult in my siege army. He will be the first martyr after the city defence having been worn to zero. Sometimes, not very often though, you will need your catapult to attack a good stack of emeny out of a city. In this situation, Drill is of course better than City Raider. However, I still prefer Combat to Drill. The last promotion needs some discussion is Accuracy, which add 10% bombard damage. I am not sure how to calculate this 10% extra damage, but from what I got in the game, a catapult with Accuracy makes about 2/3 more damage than the normal ones. I usually also have a such kind of bombard expert in my siege army as well. By the time you or the AI raising the war, most of the cities have a city defence more than 40%. The capital will usually be 60%. An bombard expert usually save you at least 1-2 turns to start the final attack. This at least 1-2 turns means less enemy enforcements, less unit supply cost, and less war weariness.
 
I definitely find the medieval era to be my favorite era for military. Although I often claim my lead with an ancient era horse rush, the medieval era is where I need to plan properly to surge ahead.
 
I like the +exp civic idea. I haven't employed that effectively.

I think my new tactic is going to be a quick rush and early war and then hold with longbowmen. Rather than get into a position where I have to fight offensively vs longbowmen.

My last game was with Rome. I spammed Pretorians which I've found to be the best unit when compared with other units of its era. I fought Spain for 1000 years and when it was over I stocked longbowmen all around but was behind tech-wise. My other neighbor, India, declared war on me and rushed with grenadiers and then calvary and took me down.

All glory is fleeting.
 
An alternative strategy would be to avoid taking their cities at this point. Send in a bunch of pillaging units and destroy their improvements but leave the cities alone. Without any farms, towns or mines, they aren't going to be able to afford anything and their population and military will crash to the ground.

Then later on, when you have Calvalry and Riflemen, go in and take their cities. They won't have been able to improve to a level to fight you at this point and you can just roll through them.
 
Have you tried ICBMs?
 
DementedAvenger said:
Have you tried ICBMs?

I just snorted wine out my nose onto my keyboard.
 
Lol about the ICBMs.

You might want to consider horse archers. They are cheap and immune to first strikes. Needless to say you will have to knock down the defensive bonus a city has before HAs will stand a chance, but a wave of them should soften up the longbowmen before you bring in heavier units. Watch out for pikeman though.
 
Cataput + sworsmen with city raider 3. These guy can take anything. (To get city raider 3, you must go into war before, and upgrade your swordsmen).

The key is, you must go in war really before they ahev a change to get longbowmen, so you cna increase the experience of your swordsmen. I usually get into war ass soon as i have 4-5 swordsmen, grab some cities and upgrade my troops to city raiding 2-3. Really helps later in the game. 9Of course without city raiding you are doomed.)
 
If you have iron, horse archer is not a good choice in a city raid against longbowmen. The swords are cheaper, with 10% city attack bonus themselves, and have City Raider promotion available. Horse archers though immune to first strike, couldn't have the critical City Raider promotions.

If you have no iron, but only horse, then horse archer could be your main force to take cities against longbowmen. However, their role should be to finish off, instead of to soften. The suicide job as usual belongs to catapults. Catapults generally did much better than the horse archers with the collateral damage, and appropriate promotions, and again they are cheaper than the horse archers.
 
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