Best UU overall

[Grendeldef]

I am puzzled why some people prefer camel archers over keshiks due to slightly higher strength. Camel archers CAN be fought in rough terrain & you may be able to catch them using clever tactics.

Surely percentages are open to interpretations but I'd describe ~30% (16->21) increase in RCS from Keshik to CA something else than 'slight'. It makes a difference against units but especially against cities. Increase in pure CS of 12% is more suitable to this 'slight' category but even it seems to make a difference - partly because there's a difference and partly based on how keen AI is to attack units with higher CS.

Might be, as I said earlier, a playstyle issue but while 1 extra mp is nice it's rarely useful and even more rarely actually needed. Doesn't make much of a difference whether I'm hiding in an untargettable tile or untargettable +1 tile away. What I do care, though, is what happens when I get caught and the CA's survivability is better. In practice both are pretty much immortal against AI until GWBs but CAs can to a degree survive with those as well which makes a life span of CA a bit longer.
In case Keshiks/CAs are hitting something they can both be caught and if not they aren't getting much xp either. The extra xp for Keshik is nice and useful while CAs can compensate that a bit by being able to take an extra hit of two.

I'm willing to admit that comparison between two roughly equal units is tricky at best but statements like

In hands of a seasoned civ player I think keshik wins by a long margin

don't feel justified.

 

[orasis]

American Minuteman. Best UU ever.

 

[Hoplite191]

Troll4Hire, we're not comparing the Ram to the Camel Archer. We're comparing the Ram to the Spearman. We look at how better or worse the Ram is compared to the Spearman and do the same with the Knight and Camel Archer/Keshik and then compare them by looking at how better they are then the original.

For Example:

Ram has +300% against Cities, Only City attack, Defensive and Visibility penalties and costs more than the Spearman

Spearman has Bonus versus Cavalry units, Lower Cost, Higher Visibility and higher defense.

Therefore they are equal as the Ram's penalties equal out it's bonus.

Knight vs Camel Archer

Knight has Higher defense, same cost, negative penalty for attacking cities, No defensive terrain bonus and weak to Pikeman.

Camel Archer has high range strength at 21 and 2 range. Same cost, No penalty on city attack no defensive terrain bonus and no penalty for being attacked by pikeman.

Therefore the Battering Ram is equal to the Spearman as the Negatives balance out the positives while the Camel Archer is better as its positives outrank the negatives when compared to the Knight. Thus it can be seen that the Camel Archer is better than the Battering Ram because it is better than the its original unit while the ram is not.

 

[Doktor Vic Tim]

I took a swing with the Caroleans and managed to luck out with the Alhambra and the Brandenburg AND very close access to Kilimanjaro. A lot of fun was had. That Drill I really does make things easier getting those Medic/Cover promotions.

But what is better when you produce them out of the city? Drill I, Cover II, Medic I or Drill I, Cover I, Medic II?

 

[SirWinston]

there is no best UU... my favorites:

Longbowmen: 3 range archers ... wuhu

Berserkers - By the time other players have pikemen and composite bowmen you have 3 movement longswords ... muhaha

Janisarries: Heal 50! whenever they kill something...+ Attack Bonus... Yes
Caroleans: Marching towards victory

Minutemen: Drill, no movement penalty + GA from Kills ... great

Legion: Very Very strong + you don't need workers to build roads

 

[budweiser]

Sometimes I have to laugh. Minuteman for America and Legions building roads were my design ideas that got implemented.

 

[Vitruvius]

One great thing about thr battery ram is it can do ampibious siege as effectively. Great on water maps too.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[BUDISMYBUDDY]

Other than that, people often forget about Denmark. It was... maybe it's still i a fairly weak civ in some ways, but players almost never take in count that at some point they've been buffed - so now their UU the Berserker (Longsword replacement) can be built at metal casting, and not steel

Berserks unlock at metal casting?

 

[Doktor Vic Tim]

Yes, they do after the Fall Patch. I was on the receiving end of them when I decided to try out the Keshiks. Denmark spammed them crazily before I had researched Chivalry and I just barely got my Keshiks out before he attacked.

 

[Xiao Xiong]

Therefore the Battering Ram is equal to the Spearman

If you have managed to convince yourself of that, you have made an error in your "logic".

In a real game if a CS gifted you a unit, and you could somehow choose to have either a spear or a ram, you would choose the spear in only very exceptional cases. Like if your capitol is under siege by mounted units and you are about to lose.

In almost any situation you GREATLY prefer to have a ram. A ram allows you to capture forward settled AI cities and raze them. I don't know if we are allowed to count the interaction between UU and UA, but Attila suffers very little unhappiness razing cities, which increases the awesomeness of the ram.

 

[Quineloe]

My GF almost captured one of my cities and terrorized my whole civ with just 6 or 7 Keshiks. I was completely helpless as even in the jungle surrounding one of my cities I was unable to catch these guys. Even longbowmen were helpless and got picked off 1 by 1. The only reason I didn't lose right there and then is because she is a very inexperienced and terrible player and couldn't get a single spearman next to the 0 hitpoints city to capture it.

So if she can do that with Keshiks, that unit is just terrifying.

If you have managed to convince yourself of that, you have made an error in your "logic".

In a real game if a CS gifted you a unit, and you could somehow choose to have either a spear or a ram, you would choose the spear in only very exceptional cases. Like if your capitol is under siege by mounted units and you are about to lose.

In almost any situation you GREATLY prefer to have a ram. A ram allows you to capture forward settled AI cities and raze them. I don't know if we are allowed to count the interaction between UU and UA, but Attila suffers very little unhappiness razing cities, which increases the awesomeness of the ram.

This. Also keep in mind the synergy needs to be taken into account, those rams are usually protected by Horse Archers, which basically means the Huns don't need spearmen to defend against horsemen, their Horse archers just run them down and shot them dead dead dead.

 

[Hoplite191]

If you have managed to convince yourself of that, you have made an error in your "logic".

In a real game if a CS gifted you a unit, and you could somehow choose to have either a spear or a ram, you would choose the spear in only very exceptional cases. Like if your capitol is under siege by mounted units and you are about to lose.

In almost any situation you GREATLY prefer to have a ram. A ram allows you to capture forward settled AI cities and raze them. I don't know if we are allowed to count the interaction between UU and UA, but Attila suffers very little unhappiness razing cities, which increases the awesomeness of the ram.

Yes you would choose a Battering Ram. I am just saying that the benefits equal out the negatives. If a CS gifted you a Ram getting it to the place in question could be difficult as your Ram could be attacked and destroyed by Barbs before it even reached the intended destination. The problem with the Ram is that it's too exposed. While the Spearman can be used to bring down the enemy Horseman which enemy civs generally have in the Classical era. Thus allowing the Swordsman with the higher attack to go in and destroy the city. The Battering Ram works well when it has units in support otherwise its a sitting duck.

 

[Quineloe]

come on, rams aren't that weak. Gifted units also spawn at your nearest city, so it's easy to have a regular military unit escort it.

and as I've said, the Huns have the best support unit in the game (in that era) with the Horse Archer.

 

[Vitruvius]

Doesnt ram have free cover promotion? And its 10 strength.

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[ArguCa]

My new list;

Janissary
Camel Archer
Dromon
Winged Hussar
Keshik
Chu-Ko-Nu
Berber Cavalry

 

[Hoplite191]

I'm providing my opinion saying that it is not the best UU however if you believe that it is then that is fine. I will argue that it is not the best unit, in my opinion there are far better units like the Pathfinder and the Keshik.

 

[BUDISMYBUDDY]

Yes, they do after the Fall Patch. I was on the receiving end of them when I decided to try out the Keshiks. Denmark spammed them crazily before I had researched Chivalry and I just barely got my Keshiks out before he attacked.

Thats awesome. i play on mac so i don't have the fall patch yet.

 

[BUDISMYBUDDY]

My new list;

Janissary
Camel Archer
Dromon
Winged Hussar
Keshik
Chu-Ko-Nu
Berber Cavalry

why aren't Jaguars in that list