best warmonger leader

Tokugawa. Aggressive gives that added punch on the attack, and protective means that you won't get overrun on the retaliation strike. Onve you get the Samurai rolling, they get the job done for a long time...

Julius Ceaser is another good one, but Praets hit the wall too early. Science can get nerfed before the courthouses are online if you get opponents that are stubborn...

I did enjoy bringing the pain with HC or Shaka too.
 
Charismatic over aggresive, organised over financial. And spiritual is probably superior to both of those anyway. Napoleon and Brennus.

I've not included Asoka because I find spiritual and organised don't go together particularly well.
 
Thedrin said:
I've not included Asoka because I find spiritual and organised don't go together particularly well.

really?
I like warring with Asoka :)

My favourite is still hatchepetsuh. War chariots + spiritual + creative for agressive border popping. Isn't it great?
 
Thedrin said:
Easier civic switching reduces the power of half price civic maintenance. I like both traits - just not together.

:confused:
among high priced civics, there are a few that are in the same column
Theocracy and OrgRel,
Caste system and slavery (low priced but high value :)),
Bureaucracy and vassalage,
...
using spiritual to take the most benefit from those civics without thinking twice because of the cost is really synergetic IMHO.
 
asabahi said:
If you mean that because he is charasmatic he gets many highly promoted units, there are other leaders that are also charasmatic. Carthrage is pretty powerfull also, because of the UU and being financial (able to fund conquest). I think the synergy between the 2 traits make a god warmonger leader. As I mentioned above I like nappy, but other civs such as both roman leaders also qualify. The warmonging trait has to be, IMO, be paired with a money making or saving trait, or phil.

The Zulus are also great too. Conquer, build the UB (which is cheap because he is agg), save 20% on city maintance. And the impi paired with chariots can do some great pillaging.

He's not only charismatic, but he's imperalistic, so if you settle your great military leaders, you are very easily promoting three times out of your heroic epic city without any civics by the late rennaisance, four times if you get WP and/or some civics. I like that kind of synergy.

I like the zulu too, and its obvious that Immortals would be decimated by Impis. I'm playing Zulu right now on a large raging barbarians oasis with only five AI. It's a good setup. The barbarians slow development a little and the techs don't race by; I still have Impi killing Aztec chariots, haven't seen the whole map yet (have yet to meet the sixth Civ) and its 1300 AD!!

Anyway, I digress into talking about a game I'm playing, but yeah, I think the synergy of Cyrus' traits goes the farthest towards potentially having a large army of very high leve troops. Having said that, as was discussed in another thread, I think Brennus may possibly have the best warmongering traits because of spiritual paired with what I think is the best of the four fighting traits, charismatic.

Was anyone else disappointed that the only spiritual combo missing was imperialistic?
 
I'm glad to see Brennus getting some love. The only people who look down on the Gallic Warriors have never seen them grow up to be City Raider III, Guerilla III Grenadiers :) Brennus has the dual advantage of the Charismatic happy bonus plus the likelihood of having founded a religion. Also, Guerilla II Gallics on hills are match for shock promoted Axemen.

Another favorite of mine is Hatsepshut (Spiritual/Creative). Her UU is golden (and she can get to it in one tech) and the advantages of Spiritual have been covered already. The kicker is her Creative trait: no need to build culture in new conquests, and cheap libraries can be rushed to further the cultural expansion and run scientists to fuel research whether running a hybrid or specialist economy.
 
I had a particularly memorable Monarch game with Saladin. A ~1100AD Standard/Epic/Great Plains Domination win clocked in at ~154,000 points, handily topping my Monarch list. BC Macemen, BC Globe Theater, etc...everything clicked.

Except for that one game, I've never accomplished anything of note with the guy. My Emperor and Immortal lists are all the usual warmongers (Lizzy, Mansa, Cat, Peter, etc), and my Deity list is nothing but the cheesemongers (JC, HC)


Does anyone else have any oddballs on their high score lists? ...leaders you look at and wonder "what the hell are they doing there?!"
 
last night on Warlords, I did some Warmongering with the Koreans. The hwacha did a great job against the Roman Prats. I like the protective trait.

For warlords, I like Ghengis and Shaka.

On vanilla, Caesar is the man. I got 2 Monarch victories with him.
 
Paeanblack said:
Does anyone else have any oddballs on their high score lists? ...leaders you look at and wonder "what the hell are they doing there?!"

I have a bismark high score, but it was a SG, so I know where it comes from...
Top scoring isn't exctly what I look at though. I know that my easiest wins all are with spiritual leaders.
Especially, the comfort from being able to switch to slavery and/or nationhood gives me a huge safety feeling.
 
Paeanblack said:
Does anyone else have any oddballs on their high score lists? ...leaders you look at and wonder "what the hell are they doing there?!"


The top of my Hall of Fame (Original Civ 4) is a Monarch Washington game. Milking a domination score of 243,000+ points.

But, I think scoring is way skewed and does not reflect accurately the better games I've played because I've had much beter games that have never even come close to 100,000.
 
among high priced civics, there are a few that are in the same column
Theocracy and OrgRel,
Caste system and slavery (low priced but high value ),
Bureaucracy and vassalage,
...
using spiritual to take the most benefit from those civics without thinking twice because of the cost is really synergetic IMHO.

Well it's not important for labour and economy civics and it has been made less useful for legal civis with the increased upkeep of bureacracy. On top of that, for a game which is predominantly about warmongering, the remaining benefits are further restricted (no pacifism, increased use of state property). When I play a more sedantry game with a spiritual civ it's something I take advantage of a lot but as far as this thread is concerned, maybe I should give Asoka a try for warmongering.
 
I read through the thread quickly, so forgive me if I missed him, but I was surprised not to see Ragnar (Vikings - Financial and Aggressive, Hunting and Fishing, Berserker, Trading Post) listed anywhere. For my part, I have found him to be a very effective warmonger. I am currently on a 7 game winning streak with him (Monarch, Fractal, Standard size and speed), and all of my wins have thus far been through domination.

First of all, I am a proponent of the Financial trait, which confers an advantage in that it allows me to maintain high levels of research while making war against my many enemies. I admit that the Aggressive trait leaves a little to be desired, but the additional Combat I promotion for melee and gunpowder units does provide a nice boost for new units.

Even better than that, though, is the UU. The Berserker (8/1/1) replaces the Maceman (8/1/1), and has an additional +10% city attack and amphibious bonus plus the normal +50% vs. melee troops that the Maceman receives. Alone, these advantages do not immediately confer military dominance; however, I have found the timing of the UU and its abilities to fit perfectly with my gameplay.

Specifically, I have become fond of establishing a base of three "main" cities, with the second one usually being founded right around the time I traditionally discover Bronze Working. Unfortunately, I have found that in many of my games I am not particularly close to a source of copper, which rules out an Axeman assault.

Fortunately, the Berserker only requires Machinery, Iron or Copper and Civil Service. These can usually be picked up at around the same time the AI is discovering Feudalism. You will already have catapults, and AI doesn't really prioritize Civil Service most of the time. Wars, even small ones, during this period, can help you gain the promotions necessary to create a true military machine, and also help to ****** AI research.

Shortly thereafter Rifles come in to play, and a mass upgrade of highly promoted Berserkers to Riflemen creates a nearly unstoppable force, especially when the AI is lacking in technology.

Specifically, I should mention that with West Point and two drill instructors, a city can produce Berserkers that have City Raider III, Combat I, and Amphibious Assault. As a base Berserker unit, these can only be stopped by Macemen and Crossbowmen. Once these are upgraded to Riflemen, no contemporary unit can effectively counter them (esp. after they get the additional Pinch promotion). Once they are upgraded to Infantry, the difference becomes even more stark.

After that, your production base of 3-4 cities should allow you to cruise to victory while you continue to churn out units and spread your influence to every distant reach of the earth.

So, in the end, maybe the aggressive trait isn't the best in the world. And Ragnar's starting techs leave a lot to be desired. Nevertheless, the financial trait, when combined with the abilities and timing of the UU, make Ragnar Lodbrok, of the Vikings, my favorite Warmonger.
MM
 
Mon Mauler said:
Specifically, I should mention that with West Point and two drill instructors, a city can produce Berserkers that have City Raider III, Combat I, and Amphibious Assault. As a base Berserker unit, these can only be stopped by Macemen and Crossbowmen. Once these are upgraded to Riflemen, no contemporary unit can effectively counter them (esp. after they get the additional Pinch promotion). Once they are upgraded to Infantry, the difference becomes even more stark.
MM


If you have Military Tradition (West Point) why would you still be pumping out Beserkers? Cavalry would seem to be much more potent at that stage.

If you are doing so just to get the Promos and then upgrading them I think that is far too cost prohibitive since you could just make Grenadiers and grab the Aggressive bonus that way. Also, don't they eventually grey out at this point, or is there some tech squelching going on here?
 
drkodos said:
If you have Military Tradition (West Point) why would you still be pumping out Beserkers? Cavalry would seem to be much more potent at that stage. ...also, don't they eventually grey out at this point, or is there some tech squelching going on here?
Macemen/Bersekers don't go off the build list until Rifling. Theoretically you could still build CR3 Macemen for the intention of making City Raider rifles/infantry/mechs in the future, barring upgrade costs.
 
Robo Kai said:
Macemen/Bersekers don't go off the build list until Rifling. Theoretically you could still build CR3 Macemen for the intention of making City Raider rifles/infantry/mechs in the future, barring upgrade costs.

Well, if one has the luxuryof building Beserkers simply to upgrade them and can afford this cost when Grenadiers and Cannons are available, that would indicate the player already has a tremendous lead in research, production and power. A fish-in-the-barrel shoot, I believe it is called. I know I have done this myself when I've played some fun games on low levels (and there is nothing wrong with that) but I'm not sure it's a viable startegy in a tightly contested game.


Just sayin.
 
The best team in the early game would have to Ceaser/Wang. A stack of prats/hwachas is unstoppable (not even catapults will stop them since hwachas don't suffer collateral) and that gives you financial and organized.
 
I too am glad to see an often ignored candidate getting some love, Shaka. Oh yeah baby.

The Zulu UB confers a wonderful compounding effect throughout the game with it's reduced city maintance feature. It gives a slight advantage in early expansion but throughout the course of an entire game and widespread across an empire it adds up. In one sense it basically means for every five cities the sixth city's maintance is cancelled out, extra city equaling extra blah blah blah. The larger and more profitable empire the better.

The Impi itsn' the most powerfull unit, but it's mobility and combat 1 make it very versitile, especially when you mass produce these suckers prior to Rifling coupled with Vassalage, Theocracy, any GG instructors etc. You can end up with a large stack of Rifleman with Combat 1, Mobility, and City Raider 2 (and those are just the mass produced ones, not counting any that have been with you through the centuries). Depending on circumstances that final production rampup could be the final factor getting you the domination/conquest victory.

[Full disclosure: I discount the cost of upgrading using this logic: put science at 0% until you have the upgrade cost then reset science to whatever is affordable, then upgrade and skullthump to final victory, far more often then not those turns where you have science at 0% aren't going to matter expecially if you get final victory out or it, OR you seriously cripple your major tech &/or military opponents]
 
Crighton said:
I too am glad to see an often ignored candidate getting some love, Shaka. Oh yeah baby.

The Zulu UB confers a wonderful compounding effect throughout the game with it's reduced city maintance feature. It gives a slight advantage in early expansion but throughout the course of an entire game and widespread across an empire it adds up. In one sense it basically means for every five cities the sixth city's maintance is cancelled out, extra city equaling extra blah blah blah. The larger and more profitable empire the better.

The Impi itsn' the most powerfull unit, but it's mobility and combat 1 make it very versitile, especially when you mass produce these suckers prior to Rifling coupled with Vassalage, Theocracy, any GG instructors etc. You can end up with a large stack of Rifleman with Combat 1, Mobility, and City Raider 2 (and those are just the mass produced ones, not counting any that have been with you through the centuries). Depending on circumstances that final production rampup could be the final factor getting you the domination/conquest victory.


I've been beating this drum for a long time, myself. I think Shaka is top tier, perhaps my favorite along with Mehmed.
 
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