Best way to gain Scientific edge?

[BarnacleJones]

I'm sure this has been covered many times before, but even playing at the warlord level, I seem to be left in the technological dust when it comes to the science-race.

I typically start to build as large a civilization as early in the game as possible, immediately crank up science spending to 100%, and closely monitor it thereafter so I don't run out of gold. I also build libraries as soon as I can.

But still, I manage to quickly fall behind to other civilizations. I'm fairly militiristic and like to attack when I have the better units, but it seems impossible.

Am I doing something wrong?

 

[Doc Holliday]

We'll you basically covered most everything you need to do in order to gain scientific supremecy. Hmmm. The only things you didn't mention is how well you work your land with workers, government type, marketplaces and the type of terrain you typically have.

Marketplaces are vital since an increase in commerce will increase your ability to research. If you have land that is lacking in rivers than you will be at a disadvantage in science. For government choices traditionally Republic is a the superior government but ensure that you have your land properly worked or the increased unit maintanence will haunt you.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

First off, welcome to CFC!

As Doc said govt and markets may be two of your flaws. An important thing that often gets overlooked is roads. Make sure every tile you are working has a road, as that gives you one extra gold per tile.

Republic is a better govt for research, but unit maintenance can kill you if you switch too early. Try Monarchy, it has greater unit support/lower support costs.

Are you trading techs? That is something that many newer players overlook. Think of it this way: if you're not trading, you're essentially trying to outresearch all of the other civs, because they are definitely trading. That being said, once your infrastructure is up and running, you should be able to outresearch the AI.

Markets, banks, libraries, and universities are all very important for research, as they increase science, or commerce, which can then be turned into science. The FP can also be either a decent help, or a big help, depending on what version you're using.

Also, when asking for help, try to post as much info as you can, like version (PTW, C3C, etc.) map type, govt you like to use, etc.

Just a few thoughts, hope they help!

EDIT: you said you're militaristic, are you extorting techs for peace whenever possible?

 

[Rik Meleet]

You do a lot of things right. 1 thing I am missing here though; tech-trades. It's way easier to get a lot of techs through trades than to research them all yourself. The AI will trade with other AI, generally throwing you back scientifically, if you don't trade as well.

 

[Lord Jimbob]

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
You do a lot of things right. 1 thing I am missing here though; tech-trades. It's way easier to get a lot of techs through trades than to research them all yourself. The AI will trade with other AI, generally throwing you back scientifically, if you don't trade as well.

exactly. the best way to boost your science research is to build a warrior/scout or 2 or 3 and send them out to the corners of the earth looking for new civs -before you start other improvements or settlers. or better yet (especially if you are a seafaring civ) build a couple of curraghs or galleys to move along the coast and try and cross over to nearby continents to meet the neighbors. with some practice you might at times find yourself the richest and most scientifically advanced civ with minimal expenditure on research! even on deity!

 

[Gwil]

It's worthwhile reading the opening moves for a lot of other game related issues (as I discovered ) playing on warlord I found it difficult to keep up in techs.

But now as Egypt i'm 1-2 techs ahead of 4 civs, and making tidy profits off older techs that im trading for gpt! How? Just by having a rapid expansion onto a plains/tundra based continent secured me lots of luxuries (theyre a key point) and I monopolised the iron from Rome and Greece. A few well calculated early wars and i'm now racing ahead globally..

Theyre in the war academy btw

 

[BarnacleJones]

Ah ha, I think my lack of tech-trading is indeed the culprit here. I'm so paranoid about being ahead inteh race that I'm sometimes scared to give a competitor a technology that he does not have.

I have some bad habits to get rid of......

 

[HalfBadger]

Tech-Trading really helps early on, when the various civs haven't fully met each other and have discovered many different techs. for example if you are the first to discover writing, you may be able to trade it with someone for iron working, another for polytheism etc. or at least get one good tech and get gold from other civs, especially gpt, which means you can increase science and they have to decrease theirs .

 

[Mise]

I know it may be obvious, but when you trade a tech with one civ, make sure you trade it with ALL civs, even if they can't give you much (maybe some gold + world map, or e.g. pottery for republic), cos they're gonna find it out from the other civs anyways (assuming they know each other).... On that note don't trade stuff on their turn, cos they'll trade it with other civs before you get a chance, always do it on your turn.

 

[Wakboth]

Also. Be aware that there's a difference between opening play tech trading, and playing a "tech trade" strategy.

In all games, regardless of level, you should trade techs with your neighbors as fast and early as you possibly can. Each civ starts with just a couple techs, and they're mostly different. Making contact with as many civs as possible early on makes the difference between you having 2 or 3 techs and you having 6 or 8 right off the bat. Remember that there will be cross over. Odds are you aren't the only civ that got ceremonial burial at the start. Once one of the other civs that has that tech meets one that doesn't, he'll trade it, and you wont have anything of value anymore. Always trade your techs as soon as you make contact with any other civ. You can do nothing but hurt yourself by not doing so.

Using a tech trade strategy is a bit different. Typically, this is an overall game strat that involves gaining money and resources and actively trading with other civs in order to gain tech. What you'll often do is crank up taxation instead of research. The idea is that with more money, you can conduct more trades, and since you're "smarter" then the AI players, you'll be able to wheel and deal yourself to a profit. This sort of tactic is really only viable in the higher levels of the game. At lower levels, the AIs gain science advances so slowly, that you should easily be able to outtech them and gradually stretch your tech lead throughout the game. There's no point in building up a trade strategy since no one will have anything you want or need.

At higher levels, the AI will pretty much always blow you away in all aspects of the game through the expansion phase. You're generally better off working the trade strategy since your goal is just to keep up with the AI players until you can make a move past them (which is usually going to be after everyone's kinda filled in the map and some major wars get started). In a typical game at emperor level, I tend to just kinda hang in with the AIs tech-wise until sometime in the early industrial age. Once there, you can take advantage of the AI's consistently poor tech tree strategy, and your (presumably) superior tactical use of rails and such to allow you to pull ahead of them. Mastering the deal is pretty much a requirement in order to win at the higher levels (deals being both trades and political manipulation).


Since you are playing at warlord level, I think your problem isn't so much trading (although the early trade concepts still apply), but it's about resource management. Make sure you are working the right tiles in your city. Micromanage. If you don't have an aqueduct, and your city is at its max population of 6, then there's no reason to have a surplus food. Change an irrigation or two to mines to increase production. Make sure you have roads on every square you are working in a city. Use garrisons in your cities to make your people happy. I know some players will disagree with this, but I generally don't believe you should ever need to use your luxury slider in a chieftan or warlord game. You should tax only enough to keep a positive income for your civ, and all the rest should go toward research.

And make sure you're building enough cities! Don't stop to build up each city all the way. Expand fast early on. Don't worry about cities boundaries overlapping. While you can maximize each city by giving them more space between cities, I've found that you rarely make much use of those extra squares. A dense pack of cities in your core will ultimately produce more in the long run, then a smaller number of cities spread out. Remember, you can't get a city past size 6 unless it has an aqueduct, and you can't get it past size 12 if you don't have a hospital (which is a looooong way into the game really). Unless all your cities are on rivers, most of them wont grow that large anyway. Spreading them out just means that it takes you longer to build each city, longer to connect them by road, longer to move military units around your area, and increases the amount of territory you ultimately have to defend.

In many aspects of Civ, I tend to go for quality over quantity (like military), but when it comes to building cities, especially early in the game, just build them as fast as you can. You'll gain much more over the long run then trying to make each city site the best possible.

 

[seanos08]

Well I play regent and the real problem is early wars.

Avoid wars until medieval but maintain a viable (1 off 1 def unit/city plus garrison res and choke points) Military. Explore !

I avoid extortion as you can get the result through trade. Also if you are the agressor early you take a huge diplo hit that greatly hinders trade. See the Lime Green Aztec Mincing Machine for a vital early war strategy.

Build cities and roads ASAP. Luxuries are vital as with them you can stop disorder, trade and keep cities in order.

 

[Tomoyo]

You don't get a huge diplo hit just for being the aggressor. You only get the hit if you broke a deal in doing so.

 

[Jawz II]

kill all the civs that r making techs fast

some civs spit out a new tech like every 4 turns

kill those fast

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Another thing, make sure to quickly expand. More cities = more commerce = more science = AI losing tech race.

 

[Lord Jimbob]

Originally posted by Tomoyo
You don't get a huge diplo hit just for being the aggressor. You only get the hit if you broke a deal in doing so.

Although IIRC you do take a little reputation hit among all civs as a consequence of declaring war on another civ (not to mention a graver hit with the AI you declare against, which rapidly appreciates as you destroy its units/cities!).

 

[nighthidesnot]

Wakboth said:

In many aspects of Civ, I tend to go for quality over quantity (like military), but when it comes to building cities, especially early in the game, just build them as fast as you can. You'll gain much more over the long run then trying to make each city site the best possible.

Excellent point! I found that out as I moved into Monarch and Emperor levels. My typical strategy for a new city was to build warrior/spearman, worker, then settler if the growth was fast enough. Once I had my second worker, I'd be building my road to my next city location.

I don't know if this is considered cheating, but I like to play in the Mass Regicide mode. Early in the game, I'll use most of the king units as scouts to locate and snap up as many goody huts as possible. Their rating is 1/1/2, so they can take a barbarian hit if one jumps out at them, unlike scouts. Computer opponents do not use their king units in this manner, so there's a big advantage to you.

By getting to the goody huts first, I get an early jump on technologies, and I'll go for the Great Library if I get the chance. I also pick up extra gold, which allows me to set my science production to 80-90%.

My preferred technology path to start a game is Alphabet/Writing/Philosophy. Remember, whoever gets to Philosophy first gets a free tech advance. When successful, I pick out one that generally takes the most turns to reach. I've also had games where I've gotten a Scientific Leader after reaching Philosophy first.