Beta 12

[Opera]

I find it kind of annoying that catholicism stays in all 8+ cities when you accept the reformation, especially since it comes at a time where you're pretty much guaranteed to have 8+ cities nearly everywhere. A chance of it staying would probably be better.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Isle of Man is unstable for England??

Isle of Man is already changed to be The Isles in the svn version
Should probably be still OK for England

IMO the Scottish revolt mechanics should be reworked. In the best possible situation, you have 60% or so chance to keep the city. As the revolts happen at least 5 times a game, you can expect to lose the cities 2 times a game. It is very frustrating to have to rebuild all your infrastructure, not to mention losing wonders and colonial projects when your stability is at +30. The options should vary by stability, so if you are Stable or Solid and pay money, all you get is a barb stack.

The revolt mechanics should be tweaked, at least with solid stability
So I agree with this

 

[HockeySam18]

Bug: 1st Lithuanian UHV (culture) does not register.

Questions- When you say conquer Moscow, does it mean taking all their cities or just Moskva?
How is one supposed to go about winning the first UHV? Do I need to spawn an artist or accumulate the culture through buildings?

 

[MariusMR]

From another discussion re: Lithuania

Sorry to burst in here too, but I have a question about the Lithuanian UHV about accumulating 4 000 culture points without declaring a state religion before 1386.

This requirement has to be met within approximately 75 turns.

Unlike the Burgundian equivalent, it does not state that Great Artists' Great Works don't count, so I assumed it would be okay to go that route.

I researched Philosophy > Education (this alone takes 30 turns) to enable the Apprenticeship civic allowing for Artist specialists. While researching education I emphasised growth in Kaunas to allow for enough specialists.

Once the revolution was over, I added four artists in Kaunas and a Great Artist arrived 12 turns later. I created the Great Work, the culture points meter didn't recognise it, and I even played on until after 1386 to see if it might just not be counting it properly in the indicator. No such luck.

If Great Artists' Great Works don't count, I think it should at least be mentioned.

The other issue is that for the UHV requirement to be met it requires actually producing the culture points within 75 turns without the assistance of "building culture" enabled by the discovery of Drama.

This effectively translates into producing something like 53 culture points per turn until 1386, either through spamming artist specialists after adopting Apprenticeship, or by letting your only three / four cities (if you're lucky) build culture instead of something useful for about 150 years or until you adopt Apprenticeship.

I've tried various strategies for this and I've failed miserably repeatedly now, which officially makes Lithuania my least favourite civ to play

Any comments / suggestions / feedback on this UHV? I've even tried conquering huge Polish cities

The UHV is not really possible (or at least extremely hard) without GA, so this is a bug

 

[3Miro]

The revolt mechanics should be tweaked, at least with solid stability
So I agree with this

Scotland revolts at most 3 times. There are no 5 Scotish revolts.

The highest you should be able to sway the odds in your favor all the way to 80%, 90% and 80%, which means that you have 57% chance to keep them in all three revolts. You can also avoid one revolt by waiting to conquer Edinburgh closer to the time of of the UHV. (after 1320AD at least).

Keep more units garrisoned, get at least +12 stability and have enough gold to bribe the lords.

 

[3Miro]

Bug: 1st Lithuanian UHV (culture) does not register.

Questions- When you say conquer Moscow, does it mean taking all their cities or just Moskva?
How is one supposed to go about winning the first UHV? Do I need to spawn an artist or accumulate the culture through buildings?

Conquer either the city or vassalize the player.

For the UHV: can anyone give it a try and say what a good number of culture points is? Try it while expanding as fast as the Mongols would allow.

 

[3Miro]

I find it kind of annoying that catholicism stays in all 8+ cities when you accept the reformation, especially since it comes at a time where you're pretty much guaranteed to have 8+ cities nearly everywhere. A chance of it staying would probably be better.

This encourages prosecutions. We can up the level to 10, so that only 10+ cities would retain Catholicism.

 

[3Miro]

As I posted on the svn, I have 90% of the new Merc code done.

However, we should all remember the tested Computer Science principle that 90% of the code takes 90% of the time, while the remaining 10% of the code takes another 90% of the time.

I hope to have the new merc system working by the end of the week.

 

[HockeySam18]

Conquer either the city or vassalize the player.

For the UHV: can anyone give it a try and say what a good number of culture points is? Try it while expanding as fast as the Mongols would allow.

12000 is probably most feasible; just like Khmer in RFC you have about 75 turns to do it and with Apprenticeship one can spam artists in food abundant Lithuania. The difficult part is teching to education fast enough. This would require heavy micromanagement and make the UHV much more difficult (yet still possible) than it is now.

I don't have the savegame, but I played a game as England that went deep into the 1700s and I counted 5 scottish revolts. I didnt lose the cities until the last one, in early 1700s. Maybe that had something to do with it?

I have also noticed, as a byproduct of stolen crusades, that Byzantium is never alive when the Ottomans spawn. Either the Byzantines should respawn circa 1300, or Genoa should stop buying crusades, as they are always the culprit. It is disappointing to play as Turks and simply have to conquer a lot of indies for the UHV.

I also agree with the suggestion about more overlapping warmaps. From 500-1800 AD, Europe was ravaged by wars and such, yet I often find that I am initiating 25% of the wars in the scenario.

 

[civ_king]

12000 is probably most feasible; just like Khmer in RFC you have about 75 turns to do it and with Apprenticeship one can spam artists in food abundant Lithuania. The difficult part is teching to education fast enough. This would require heavy micromanagement and make the UHV much more difficult (yet still possible) than it is now.

I don't have the savegame, but I played a game as England that went deep into the 1700s and I counted 5 scottish revolts. I didnt lose the cities until the last one, in early 1700s. Maybe that had something to do with it?

I have also noticed, as a byproduct of stolen crusades, that Byzantium is never alive when the Ottomans spawn. Either the Byzantines should respawn circa 1300, or Genoa should stop buying crusades, as they are always the culprit. It is disappointing to play as Turks and simply have to conquer a lot of indies for the UHV.

I also agree with the suggestion about more overlapping warmaps. From 500-1800 AD, Europe was ravaged by wars and such, yet I often find that I am initiating 25% of the wars in the scenario.

Since you can't use Great Artists it is impossible to acquire 12000 culture in that amount of time, the Khmer could use artists.

UHV1 is not possible at the moment since you can't do Great Artists.

 

[RenaissanceFan]

I think the city map for Byzantium should be enlarged. Add Spain, Morocco, Corsica and Sardinia, and perhaps southern France (Marseille and surroundings). I'll try to help, but I only know the major cities.

Not that it matters much, but it's still a bit annoying when Genoa declares war on me, I capture the islands, and the names stay the same.

Also, perhaps a multi-city plot (that is, two cities working the same plot) could be implanted. The area of the Levant is too crowded, since Tarsus, Antioch and Aleppo overlap 2 squares of each other. Tyre, Jerusalem and Damascus also overlap.

 

[Wessel V1]

I suggested something like that as the Dutch UP a while ago. There are very few civs that actually need something like that, because it is mainly the AI that struggles to find the sweet spots on the map without cluttering it's cities. In Anatolia I'd call it a minor inconvenience.

EDIT:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8466074

Wow, that was already 2 years ago. I thought I suggested that in februari or march.

 

[3Miro]

I suggested something like that as the Dutch UP a while ago. There are very few civs that actually need something like that, because it is mainly the AI that struggles to find the sweet spots on the map without cluttering it's cities. In Anatolia I'd call it a minor inconvenience.

EDIT:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8466074

Wow, that was already 2 years ago. I thought I suggested that in februari or march.

I thought about it back then and while it is a good idea, it will require rewriting a huge portion of the code (I am not even sure to what extent it is even possible).

 

[3Miro]

Since you can't use Great Artists it is impossible to acquire 12000 culture in that amount of time, the Khmer could use artists.

UHV1 is not possible at the moment since you can't do Great Artists.

I don't want Lithuania to do the UHV with GA. I want them to gather a lot of culture with building a lot of cities and expanding fast (each city gives +2 culture). So the question is: What is a reasonable number for Lithuania. If 4000 is too high, can they do 1000 or 2000.

 

[civ_king]

I don't want Lithuania to do the UHV with GA. I want them to gather a lot of culture with building a lot of cities and expanding fast (each city gives +2 culture). So the question is: What is a reasonable number for Lithuania. If 4000 is too high, can they do 1000 or 2000.

You can't build enough cities either, you must farm everything and run as many artists as possible. 2500 seems reasonable, let's test with that

 

[3Miro]

You can't build enough cities either, you must farm everything and run as many artists as possible. 2500 seems reasonable, let's test with that

You can test it right now. Start a game and look at the counter, can you get it to 2500 before the due date. Leave some room for error, if you can get it to 2700, then 2500 would be reasonable.

 

[Wessel V1]

I thought about it back then and while it is a good idea, it will require rewriting a huge portion of the code (I am not even sure to what extent it is even possible).

Okay, no problem then.

 

[Wessel V1]

I got 2122 culture as Lithuania in 1386, would probably be 2200 after this turn. I got a nice start because a Polish city flipped to me and I got the extra units, so I could conquer another city (Naugardukas & Pulduskas). These were pretty valuable in the race to Education. The Mongols were not so threatening this game, which made life easier than expected. The plague infected my cities but again, not so hard as I feared. In the end I had 7 cities with a slightly subzero stability. A GA spawned, I settled him for extra culture for 12 turns.

The amount of culture I accumulated mainly came from artists. There are simply too few buildings that give culture to rely on them. Building culture could help but you have to worry about stability and future expansion too. Especially with Apprenticeship it takes some time to construct base infrastructure (all my cities have manor houses), so I think we shouldn't expect the player to do that. Belfries could have helped too, I didn't think of them when playing but they are only worth the costs in production-rich cities.

In conclusion, I think 2000 is a fair amount of culture. The cities I took from Poland helped quite a lot but my player ability dropped too lately so 2000 should be fine. Civ_king how is your game going?

 

[3Miro]

I got 2122 culture as Lithuania in 1386, would probably be 2200 after this turn. I got a nice start because a Polish city flipped to me and I got the extra units, so I could conquer another city (Naugardukas & Pulduskas). These were pretty valuable in the race to Education. The Mongols were not so threatening this game, which made life easier than expected. The plague infected my cities but again, not so hard as I feared. In the end I had 7 cities with a slightly subzero stability. A GA spawned, I settled him for extra culture for 12 turns.

The amount of culture I accumulated mainly came from artists. There are simply too few buildings that give culture to rely on them. Building culture could help but you have to worry about stability and future expansion too. Especially with Apprenticeship it takes some time to construct base infrastructure (all my cities have manor houses), so I think we shouldn't expect the player to do that. Belfries could have helped too, I didn't think of them when playing but they are only worth the costs in production-rich cities.

In conclusion, I think 2000 is a fair amount of culture. The cities I took from Poland helped quite a lot but my player ability dropped too lately so 2000 should be fine. Civ_king how is your game going?

Thanks Wessel V1, this is useful information and will be taken into account for the next release.

 

[HockeySam18]

Is it intentional that Poland's first UHV involves settling or conquering 12 cities in Unstable provinces? I spam manor houses and courthouses, walls and castles, and run militarism, then imperialism, yet my stability is in the toilet. This is compounded by the need to raze certain cities to make room for new ones. IMO those provinces should at least be changed to OK, especially the closer ones, like podolia, bohemia, moravia, and Upper hungary.

Currently, the second Polish UHV requires me to change religion three times to build the Cathedrals. Construction of non state cathedrals should be part of polands UP.