Beta 12

[Tigranes]

That is definitely interesting. OB + Missionaries would definitely work for the Dutch, but England and Sweden would be much harder. Do you think you can actually do this, that is, leave no Protestant nations in say 1700 or some other appropriate year.

Austrians can finally put all that buildings to the good use. Spies can be understood as Jesuits at this point . England is so far that she never puts a good counter-espionage effort. We just need to tune the cost to be high enough for religious conversions.

 

[AbsintheRed]

@Merijn
Is the persian order/select sounds used? I didn't find any place where they are
I saw you cleaned up the other unused ones from the xml file, yet leaved them there
Or do you plan to use them for one of the special mercenaries?

 

[merijn_v1]

@Merijn
Is the persian order/select sounds used? I didn't find any place where they are
I saw you cleaned up the other unused ones from the xml file, yet leaved them there
Or do you plan to use them for one of the special mercenaries?

I indeed saved them for special mercs. There is a big chance it will be used for one of the mercs. Currently, I don't have any idea which. But I rather keep it (for a while) than I have to restore it. (So there is also a chance it would be used at all. But who knows)

 

[AbsintheRed]

I indeed saved them for special mercs. There is a big chance it will be used for one of the mercs. Currently, I don't have any idea which. But I rather keep it (for a while) than I have to restore it. (So there is also a chance it would be used at all. But who knows)

Cool, we may include some persian related (or close enough) mercenaries for Byzantium or Arabia some day

 

[AbsintheRed]

@merijn
Are you sure on adding a swiss pikeman to the pope on start?
It seems kinda strange to have one there 2-300 turns before the introduction of pikeman in the game
I know there already was a pikeman in Rome on start, but IMO that was a mistake too
I think we should give other starting units to the pope, while Swiss Pikeman mercenaries appearing in it's province when it's appropriate. Or even in a wider time period

 

[Opera]

Bah, what's the use? the pope is never at war anyway.

 

[3Miro]

The Pope doesn't hire mercs, there is no point. He can only build units.

 

[AbsintheRed]

The Pope doesn't hire mercs, there is no point. He can only build units.

Oh, I already added a couple Swiss Pikeman mercenaries to Latium
Anyway, doesn't really matter then
The starting units are changed, so he won't start with pikemans in 500AD

I was thinking, now that we changed the name of the jewish wonder to Kazimierz (as it was intended), why not readd the Temple Mount as the normal jewish shrine?
Jerusalem could use the culture boost, also the small extra income from those few jewish cities across Europe is still nice
A couple extra reasons for the player to want to keep Jerusalem
We need new art, button and movie for Kazimierz anyway - this way the old ones will still be used

Also, does anyone know what's the reason behind the Triumphal Arch replacing the National Epic?
Was there any special reason because of the mechanics it triggers? Or why isn't it a separate national wonder?
Oh and we need new button for Triumphal Archs too - currently they use the National Epic's

 

[Tigranes]

Guys, what do you thing about RFCE++ idea of unions? If polished -- I like it a lot, even if the mod become too deterministic. After certain date it is irritating to see strong and independent Burgundy, Kievians or Lithuanians. Game should force permanent alliances or unions between Moscow and Kiev, Poland and Lithuania, Austria and Hungary, France and Burgundy, etc. It is both historical and adds to gameplay a new twist, which does not require much coding...

 

[Opera]

I'd rather want the new civs before the unions

 

[merijn_v1]

We could make the Swiss Pikeman the UU of the Papal states, so it is possible for the Pope to have them. (I know this doesn't make a big difference, only aesthetic)

 

[3Miro]

We could make the Swiss Pikeman the UU of the Papal states, so it is possible for the Pope to have them. (I know this doesn't make a big difference, only aesthetic)

The Pope will not attack or defend with his pikes, but you can give him a UU, it doesn't rally make a difference.

 

[AbsintheRed]

@Merijn, 3Miro
Any thoughts on Temple Mount and National Epic?

 

[3Miro]

@Merijn, 3Miro
Any thoughts on Temple Mount and National Epic?

I am not sure to what extend the Temple Mount survived in our time period, I think it was replaced by the Dome of the Rock. As a "minor" religion, it is OK if the Jews don't have a gold giving Holy Shrine. Also, the player shouldn't be building it. We can put something pre-build that gives culture, but not gold.

IIRC, National Epic is a national wonder that gives +100% unit production. Triumphant Arch is a national wonder that starts a Golden Age. TA cannot be build and it is only scripted to appear in one of your cities when you get 2/3 UHV goals. We can change the TA to another wonder or remove it altogether. I think I can make it so that GA starts without a wonder.

 

[merijn_v1]

Dunno about the Temple Mount. I think an extra building/wonders isn't necessary.

I think the reason why the Triumphal Arc replaces the the National Epic, is that it's auto-placed when you get your 2nd UHV. It may be a better way to celebrate the UHV (=triumph) you managed to do than the National Epic.

 

[MariusMR]

IIRC, National Epic is a national wonder that gives +100% unit production.

If I recall correctly, based on SoI, the National Epic adds 50% Great Person points.

 

[civ_king]

The national epic gives +% GP points, the heroic epic gives +% unit production

 

[AbsintheRed]

I am not sure to what extend the Temple Mount survived in our time period, I think it was replaced by the Dome of the Rock. As a "minor" religion, it is OK if the Jews don't have a gold giving Holy Shrine. Also, the player shouldn't be building it. We can put something pre-build that gives culture, but not gold.

IIRC, National Epic is a national wonder that gives +100% unit production. Triumphant Arch is a national wonder that starts a Golden Age. TA cannot be build and it is only scripted to appear in one of your cities when you get 2/3 UHV goals. We can change the TA to another wonder or remove it altogether. I think I can make it so that GA starts without a wonder.

Okay, it will only give culture, but no gold because they are a minor religion. There are the jewsih quarters for that anyway
Also it will be pre-build in Jerusalem

National Epic gives +100% birth rate in the city it's built (in vanilla BtS)
Heroic Epic gives +100% military production in the city it's built
I like that we have a Triumphal Arch, I just said that currently the mod doesn't have a National Epic

 

[AbsintheRed]

Also, does anyone know what's the reason behind the Triumphal Arch replacing the National Epic?
Was there any special reason because of the mechanics it triggers? Or why isn't it a separate national wonder?

@3Miro
I only asked this, because this is in the xmlconsts.xml:
iNationalEpic=144
iTriumphalArch = 144#Should be same number as National Epic
So I guess that the 2 things are somehow tied together in the .dll

 

[3Miro]

@3Miro
I only asked this, because this is in the xmlconsts.xml:
iNationalEpic=144
iTriumphalArch = 144#Should be same number as National Epic
So I guess that the 2 things are somehow tied together in the .dll

That is something old from Rhye. He replaced the National Epic bonus with the Leaning Tower and then made the national Epic the same as Triumphant Arch. I guess he just didn't update all the XML and Python under-the-hood.