Beta #2 (Unreleased) - My Initial Thoughts

[pineappledan]

Not sure if it’s a case of too many cooks, but it could save time in the end if planned patches are announced before they hit. Could abandon or modify initial application of the patch if a novel viewpoint has a particular amount of traction.

With that in mind, I agree with the statement that agribusiness is about to become a very situational building, and of questionable value to, say, a coastal empire, or one whose playstyle avoids farms (Iroquois, Maya, Huns). Any civ with a UI that gives food can give this building a pass, since they aren’t likely to use the farms instead (France, Shoshone, Dutch). Polynesia in particular has almost no use for it whatsoever.

If the main intent of the agribusiness is to burn horses, then maybe a more general effect is needed. If the main intent is to keep farms up to date, then maybe the horses requirement should be reduced to 1? Would it help if the agribusiness gave +2 to farms, but also +1 food to pastures, plantations, and UIs? Right now it feels like a building that requires your cities to go “back to the land” a la Khmer Rouge to even get any use out of it. If you are playing a civ that simply doesn’t focus farms, then this building can be ignored

 

[Gidoza]

Yeah there's a couple things going on about growth late-game.

1. It's harder to do because the food demands are getting higher and higher.

2. The % of yields added is lower for each population point, because the relative addition is smaller for each new population that arrives.

3. Also, Pantheons like Goddess of Love is declining in usefulness because we're not bothering to grow anymore - which means that the scales by era bonus isn't actually as effective as one would think.


The exception to the rule is things like the Public School, the Palace (I actually think the sci bonus should be removed here for pop), and other buildings that give yields by population - these can be rather massive if you invest in them. Basically the population problem seems to have to do with the fact that tiles aren't worth working later on in the game because of the power of specialists - if tiles become more useful in themselves or the investment of population against specialists becomes more worthwhile because of things like more powerful farms (OR if specialists cost damn more food than usual so you need lots of farms to support them) then I can see a demand for more population to make things functional more generally.

 

[lunker]

I think food and growth is actually fine the way it is.

I only have lategame food problems for cities with very few plains tiles and no special food tiles like atoll or deer. In these cases I just forget about growth altogether and put my great imrovements somewhere where growth is high.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

Haha a discussion about an unreleased beta. That’s a first. I love it.

G

I can't get Beta #2 to work.

 

[Gazebo]

Alrighty, here's the combined beta changelog (previous changes and new changes merged into one document). Let's play 'find the new change!'

Bugfixes
    Merged bugfixes and improvements from Infixo and Ilteroi (thanks!)
    Pushed through github issues list
    Major bugfixes for AI city specialization logic
    Major improvements to unit production AI
    AI should be a bit more aggressive overall, and a little more adaptive to shifts in the battlefield
    Fixed some bugs that caused the AI to DOW then bail out on their attack
    Adjusted some tactical postures
    Adjusted some voting logic for WC
    Tweaks to deal logic re: cities
    AI should be less likely to voluntary submit to vassalage
    Unit Cycler now looks for the nearest unit, instead of jumping around randomly
    Reworked Tech AI logic quite a bit - should be more tailored to strategic play.
    Fixed a few more bugs here and there
    Improvement city citizen management (fixed a big bug too)

UI
    Added ability to sort by XP Level in Military Overview

Balance
    General
        Randomized Victories - now only randomizes between science, diplo, and culture. Unlocks at Atomic.
        Difficulty Model
            Removed Digs and CS TR historic event bonuses
            Reduced GP bonus to /3 (was /2)
            Removed local border growth bonus
            Reduced AI barbarian combat bonus
            Reduced starting units for Deity AI
            Tweaked barb spawn rate so that more barbs spawn on higher difficulties, and fewer on lower ones
        Adjusted disbanding logic to be more aggressive and to function for AI properly
        Can no longer indiscriminately gift units to CSs if they're at their unit cap (roughly 5 or so units per city)
        Reduced City defense scaling from tech/pop slightly
        Tweaked building/unit purchase cost formula a bit
            Units now scale with empire size in cost (same as buildings)
            Building and Unit base cost increased slightly
        City-States can now upgrade their units when they have the tech (gold limitations removed for them)
            They're already behind on techs, so no reason to double-punish them.
        City-State influence scaler adjusted to be less powerful at longer gamespeeds
        General/Admiral rates required for a GA/GG to spawn now scale with gamespeed
    Beliefs
        Pantheons
             Earth Mother gives +1 Faith from Iron
             Springtime gives +2 Gold from Plantations, but no Culture
             Festivals gives +3 Gold from a Resource
             Expanse gives 6 Production instead of 15 Food
        Divine Inheritance and Theocratic rule now 10% for yield buffs (were 15%)
    Buildings
        Removed maintenance from Stock Exchange
        Barracks/Ikanda Science reduced to 1 (was 2)
        Adjusted purchase cost formula a bit (should be a little cheaper late-game)
        Bank - changed Caravansary/Mint bonus to local, increased to +3g (from 1)
        Caravansary - reduced connection bonus to 10% (Was 25%)
        Dropped Modifiers on CSD Ideology NWs to 5% (were 15%), 10% for Prodction on Hall of Honor
        Culture Modifier on Opera House now 5%
        Reduced pop science growth on University (but not Seowon) to 25% (was 33%)
        Reduced science per citizen on Public School (but not Skola) to 1 per 4 (was 1 per 2)
        Windmill - dropped Food on Grocer/Granary to +1 (was +2)
        University/Seowon - removed Forest Science
        Herbalist- removed food on Forest
        Workshop - removed Jungle buffs
        Factory/Steam Mill - removed Specialist bump, now grants Manufactories +2 Production
        Stock Exchange - now provides Towns with +2 Gold, dropped Gold per Citizen to 1:5
        Medical Lab- the 3 specialists now produce +1 of their base yield (instead of all science), and food kept dropped to 15% (Was 30%)
        Well/Watermill - now divided - Well generates +1p per 5 citizens, Watermill +1p per 4 citizens.
            These buildings scaled surprisingly well (ha), and needed a nerf.
        Floating Gardens - now +1f/p per 5 citizens (was +2 per 5)
        Agribusiness - loses 10% food, but gains +1 food on all worked farms and pastures
        Increased maintenance costs for buildings from Renaissance-on.
        Church - now boosts starting religious strength for all missionaries by 5% (up to 50% global)
            Prior effect created weird and un-fun strategies to only build missionaries in one city. This spreads the bonus out, encouraging investment.
    Wonders
        Heroic Epic - +1 Production per 5 citizens in city added.
        National Epic - added +15 culture when citizen is born in city.
        Grand Temple - removed Golden Age, but buffed Temple bonuses to +2 (Was +1)
        East India - now grants an extra trade route
        Parthenon - gains 10% supply modifier for city
        Terracotta Army - now flat 3 supply for city in which it is built
        Himeji - loses free Scientist, now +1 supply per city.
        Machu Pichu - Reduced gold bonus to 15% (Was 33%)
        Oracle - free social policy gone - now grants 500 Golden Age Points and Culture instantly and a free Temple
        Removed Extra movement from Grand Canal promotion
    Civs
        Huns - UA now 75% chance to capture barb in encampment (was 100%)
    Corporations
        Reduced modifier for Trader Sid's TRs to 25% Gold (was 50%)
        Reduced modifier for Firaxite TRs to 50% Science (Was 100%)
        Giorgio and Firaxite Office bonus reduced by 1 (now +2 culture/science per office, respectively)
    City-States
        Reworked bully metric, removed tiering (now scales direcly from power) and made the proximity bonus tighter
        Adjusted production/growth modifiers
        Have fewer starting units at higher difficulties
    Improvements
        Pastures: +1 food (fresh water) at Mathematics, +1 gold (no-fresh-water) at civil service
        Lumbermill/Logging Camp (was Lumbermill (Jungle)) - shifted tech yield increases around a bit
            Moved Industrialization yield bump to Metallurgy - boosts Lumber mill by +1p, Logging Camp by +1g
            Bump at Combustion - now +2p (Logging Camp), +2g (Lumbermill)
            These no longer depend on fresh/nonfresh water (as that was always weird for feature-based tiles anyways)
    Units
        Units purchased with gold now receive half of the potential XP from the city (so if a city has a barracks, you get 7xp, not 15xp)
            Can be disabled in CBO if desired.
        Increased Guided Missile Damage (150, from 100), can only attack units (and attacks garrisons alone when hitting cities)
        Great Merchant WLTKD now 10 (was 20)
        Great Engineer - reduced potency of hurry base value, but increased production boost from manufactories (20%, from 10%)
        Naval Ranged units are now all a base 1 range
            Much like the artillery conundrum on land, the shift to 2 range dramatically changes the naval landscape, too much so.
        Naval Ranged units now get access to Splash I/II (from Targeting III)
        Captured military units start at 25 health (was 50) - nerf to Huns, Prize Ships, etc.
        Moved Nuclear Sub to Robotics
        Workboat starts with Sight Penalty, moves reduced to 2
        Battleship and Cruiser start with Range (so they'll max out at 2 range)
    Specialists
        Specialist food costs increased by 1 (so starts a 3, goes up using old formula in the same linear manner)
        Removed 1 Engineer from Trainstation
        Removed Civil Servants from CSD NWs (3 total)
        Removed 1 Scientist from Military Academy
        Removed 1 Engineer from Factory
        Removed 1 Merchant from Stock Exchange
        Removed 1 Scientist from Seowon
        Removed 1 Scientist from Monastery
        Overall: potential specialist slot amounts are roughly equal (not taking into account extra slots from UBs)
        Normalized Specialist yields from tech (Engineers always get Production, GWAM always get Culture, etc.)
        Specialists produce .5 unhappiness (was .25) - so 2 specialists = 1 unhappiness
        Reduced Culture from GWAM Specialist yield bumps at tech (2 to 1, 3 to 2)
        Remove 1 Tech-based yield increase per other Specialist type:
            Theology for Scientist
            Flight for Merchant
            Rocketry for Engineer
    Techs
        Light adjustments to tech costs in light of balance changes
    Policies
        Progress
            Opener- Dropped Science from pop to 20 (Was 30) and retroactive to 15 (was 20)
            Organzation - moved TR bonus to Fealty (Burgers)
            Expertise - dropped Production to 10% (was 20%)
            Equality - Happiness per is now 15 (was 16)
            Finisher - Now 15 per Citizen (was 20)
        Authority
            Tribute - border expanding yields now 15 (Was 20)
        Fealty
            Burghers - Trade Routes to Civilizations with more Techs and/or Policies than you generate +2 Science and/or Culture.
            Nobility - now +3 Food on Castle (was +10% Food)
        Tradition
            Buffed faith from astrologer (+3, from +2), all other building yields unchanged (reverted from prior beta)
        Industry
            Opener - now 5 Gold per building (was 15)
            Reduced production/gold bonus on Division of Labor to 2% per building, but added Forge and Airport (so 10% total, but more spread out)
        Rationalism
            Reduced GA Science to 5% from Enlightenment (was 10%)
            Reduced Science from GWs to 2% (was 4%) on Academics (still caps at 20%)
    Tourism
        Reduced influence TR bonuses slightly
            Growth now 5/10/15/20/25%
            Gold now 2/4/6/8/10

Feedback appreciated. I hope to release the beta tonight.

G

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Holy changelog, Batman!

 

[Txurce]

Don't know if they're all new, but cruiser/battleship, Oracle look good.

Is there a typo in well/watermill?

Doesn't look like building gold investment cost has been changed -- has it?

Do you expect a change to AI favoring Tradition?

 

[Gazebo]

Don't know if they're all new, but cruiser/battleship, Oracle look good.

Is there a typo in well/watermill?

Doesn't look like building gold investment cost has been changed -- has it?

Do you expect a change to AI favoring Tradition?

No - I stripped scaling food off well/watermill, made the production buildings with just some flat food. It was stepping on granary/herbalist toes.

Gold investments were tweaked, yes, and I looked at policy selection.

G

 

[Stalker0]

Hehe well here go my comments again!

General Comments: I get the curbing of specialists but I think watering down the benefits of growth is the wrong direction. If a player is working to grow their city, they should enjoy the fruits of that big population. But in this change, not only is growth harder....it also is worth less. I'm getting less science, gold, and less hammers from my population. So...what is really the point of building a big city then?


Removed maintenance from Stock Exchange
Stock Exchange - now provides Towns with +2 Gold, dropped Gold per Citizen to 1:5
Removed 1 Merchant from Stock Exchange
--So except for maybe my capital, the stock exchange gives me some base gold, then maybe 5-8 gold for my population. I honestly don't know if its even worth the hammers anymore.

Caravansary - reduced connection bonus to 10% (Was 25%)
--Hehe am I the only one who would just rather this building not exist?

Reduced pop science growth on University to 25% (was 33%)
University - removed Forest Science
--The forest change is fine, but otherwise seems to be nerfing this building unnecessarily.

Factory/Steam Mill - removed Specialist bump, now grants Manufactories +2 Production
Removed 1 Engineer from Factory
--My same notes as the stock exchange. I'm not sure if this worth the hammers now unless its in a capital city.

Medical Lab- the 3 specialists now produce +1 of their base yield (instead of all science), and food kept dropped to 15% (Was 30%)
--I rather go the opposite way. Remove the specialist bonuses and ramp up the growth. Lets this be the growth building it was meant to be.

Agribusiness - loses 10% food, but gains +1 food on all worked farms
--I feel like this is just nerfing this building overall. Even if you are heavily farming its still not equivalent to what the 10% food brings.

Church - now boosts starting religious strength for all missionaries by 5% (up to 50% global)
Prior effect created weird and un-fun strategies to only build missionaries in one city. This spreads the bonus out, encouraging investment.
--I'm actually not sure how this works now.

Pastures: +1 food (fresh water) at Mathematics, +1 gold (no-fresh-water) at civil service
--Out of all the terrain improvements, I never felt that pastures were the improvement that needed buffing.

Nobility - now +3 Food on Castle (was +10% Food)
--I really liked the uniqueness of that previous bonus as food % were so rare. This change is weaker and more generic. This was one of those policies I actually got excited about taking.

Tradition
Buffed faith from astrologer (+3, from +2), all other building yields unchanged (reverted from prior beta)
--Hehe I would say the ONE yield tradition didn't need more of was faith.

 

[Txurce]

Church - now boosts starting religious strength for all missionaries by 5% (up to 50% global)
Prior effect created weird and un-fun strategies to only build missionaries in one city. This spreads the bonus out, encouraging investment.
--I'm actually not sure how this works now.

The more churches you build, the stronger your missionaries (up to 10 churches).

 

[Gazebo]

Hehe well here go my comments again!

General Comments: I get the curbing of specialists but I think watering down the benefits of growth is the wrong direction. If a player is working to grow their city, they should enjoy the fruits of that big population. But in this change, not only is growth harder....it also is worth less. I'm getting less science, gold, and less hammers from my population. So...what is really the point of building a big city then?


Removed maintenance from Stock Exchange
Stock Exchange - now provides Towns with +2 Gold, dropped Gold per Citizen to 1:5
Removed 1 Merchant from Stock Exchange
--So except for maybe my capital, the stock exchange gives me some base gold, then maybe 5-8 gold for my population. I honestly don't know if its even worth the hammers anymore.

Caravansary - reduced connection bonus to 10% (Was 25%)
--Hehe am I the only one who would just rather this building not exist?

Reduced pop science growth on University to 25% (was 33%)
University - removed Forest Science
--The forest change is fine, but otherwise seems to be nerfing this building unnecessarily.

Factory/Steam Mill - removed Specialist bump, now grants Manufactories +2 Production
Removed 1 Engineer from Factory
--My same notes as the stock exchange. I'm not sure if this worth the hammers now unless its in a capital city.

Medical Lab- the 3 specialists now produce +1 of their base yield (instead of all science), and food kept dropped to 15% (Was 30%)
--I rather go the opposite way. Remove the specialist bonuses and ramp up the growth. Lets this be the growth building it was meant to be.

Agribusiness - loses 10% food, but gains +1 food on all worked farms
--I feel like this is just nerfing this building overall. Even if you are heavily farming its still not equivalent to what the 10% food brings.

Church - now boosts starting religious strength for all missionaries by 5% (up to 50% global)
Prior effect created weird and un-fun strategies to only build missionaries in one city. This spreads the bonus out, encouraging investment.
--I'm actually not sure how this works now.

Pastures: +1 food (fresh water) at Mathematics, +1 gold (no-fresh-water) at civil service
--Out of all the terrain improvements, I never felt that pastures were the improvement that needed buffing.

Nobility - now +3 Food on Castle (was +10% Food)
--I really liked the uniqueness of that previous bonus as food % were so rare. This change is weaker and more generic. This was one of those policies I actually got excited about taking.

Tradition
Buffed faith from astrologer (+3, from +2), all other building yields unchanged (reverted from prior beta)
--Hehe I would say the ONE yield tradition didn't need more of was faith.

FYI Agribusiness also buffs Pastures by +1f (added to notes just now).

I also dropped the growth exponential modifier for cities so it takes less food to grow in the late-game.

Generally-speaking, the big push here was to move more yields out to tiles, and give less passive benefits from the existence of population. Actual yields don't actually feel that different right now, it's just that the yields you get depend more on what tiles you are working than before.

G

 

[Stalker0]

FYI Agribusiness also buffs Pastures by +1f (added to notes just now).

I also dropped the growth exponential modifier for cities so it takes less food to grow in the late-game.

Generally-speaking, the big push here was to move more yields out to tiles, and give less passive benefits from the existence of population. Actual yields don't actually feel that different right now, it's just that the yields you get depend more on what tiles you are working than before.

G

Ok, the growth exponential could be a huge deal, so I'm on board with trying that out. And your notes about tiles vs population makes sense to me in general. I would say the biggest loss is science (public school/university). Tiles can generally replace food/hammers/ and gold pretty easily...but in most cases can't replace science, so we may see less science overall. Honestly that may be a good thing, CV might need another tweak then but that's always workable.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

FYI Agribusiness also buffs Pastures by +1f (added to notes just now).

I still think the agribusiness change make it now a very situational building, but Iam open to test the results. Does it still need 2 horses to work?

I also dropped the growth exponential modifier for cities so it takes less food to grow in the late-game.

It would have been interesting to see how the new food distribution has a general impact.
How big is the difference in food demand of cities in the lategame?

Generally-speaking, the big push here was to move more yields out to tiles, and give less passive benefits from the existence of population. Actual yields don't actually feel that different right now, it's just that the yields you get depend more on what tiles you are working than before.

G

Thank you for these changes. I think it's really great that simple tiles get more weight again. Great PATCH!

General Comments: I get the curbing of specialists but I think watering down the benefits of growth is the wrong direction. If a player is working to grow their city, they should enjoy the fruits of that big population. But in this change, not only is growth harder....it also is worth less. I'm getting less science, gold, and less hammers from my population. So...what is really the point of building a big city then?

No reward without privation. It's a game that's about making decisions. If you want something, you have to give something for it.

 

[Mitch.sp]

Here's is my point of view:

Tweaked building/unit purchase cost formula a bit
Units now scale with empire size in cost (same as buildings)
Building and Unit base cost increased slightly

- Now with gold global reduction I would try a reduced scaling with empire size, because anyways with a bigger empire size the gold needing for investments is greater that gold gained with new cities, so it's scaling naturally.

Reduced pop science growth on University (but not Seowon) to 25% (was 33%)
University/Seowon - removed Forest Science

-Agree with Stalker0, the reduction from pop growth is unnecessary.

Agribusiness - loses 10% food, but gains +1 food on all worked farms and pastures

-Maybe keep some %, for example 5% growth, that really is a lot less that 10% food but at least a bit so can provide some marginal benefit in every city where it's built.

Workboat starts with Sight Penalty, moves reduced to 2

-With Sight Penalty don't think it's needed to half movement, reducing to 3 could be enough.

Specialists produce .5 unhappiness (was .25) - so 2 specialists = 1 unhappiness

-With so much flak going against specialists and drastic reduced value at early game, .5 unhappiness is a lot, .34 is fine.

Progress
Opener- Dropped Science from pop to 20 (Was 30) and retroactive to 15 (was 20)
Organization - moved TR bonus to Fealty (Burgers)
Expertise - dropped Production to 10% (was 20%)
Equality - Happiness per is now 15 (was 16)
Finisher - Now 15 per Citizen (was 20)

- After the heavy nerf of this tree (5 of 7, not remember so many policies being nerfed together before and even with the two other trees being very slightly buffed) I was counting for at least some minor readjustment with Beta#2, but I'm surprised seeing that not.

Tradition
Buffed faith from astrologer (+3, from +2), all other building yields unchanged (reverted from prior beta)

- Actual 2 Faith are already important for the religious game and think that 3 could affect foundation too much.

Industry
Opener - now 5 Gold per building (was 15)
Reduced production/gold bonus on Division of Labor to 2% per building, but added Forge and Airport (so 10% total, but more spread out)

-Hard nerf too, don't see the necessity to reduce Opener by a 66%, I see valid start trying with 33% -> 10 Gold.

 

[Rekk]

Ok, the growth exponential could be a huge deal, so I'm on board with trying that out. And your notes about tiles vs population makes sense to me in general. I would say the biggest loss is science (public school/university). Tiles can generally replace food/hammers/ and gold pretty easily...but in most cases can't replace science, so we may see less science overall. Honestly that may be a good thing, CV might need another tweak then but that's always workable.

I'd like to stop from rocketing to space in the 1890s, so anything that can slow the game down (for all victory types) is welcome.

 

[Ziad]

Is there a reason my influences still decays at -0.67 even at 400 influence?

I thought the increased decay was reverted, but reading the changelog makes me wonder.

On Marathon btw.

 

[Ziad]

@Gazebo

Looks great! I like the change to Oracle and forests/jungle. Thanks for listening to feedback.

I understand Carthage got indirectly buffed by the investment change, but it was also indirectly nerfed by the new changes to Progress, Industry, instant unit buys, and gold generation in general.

Now that East India provides an additional trade route, wouldn't Carthage's UB feel a little less unique now? Would it be possible to add +1 TR to it? If it's not new code, maybe add some scaling factor to it. Dunno if it's possible.

----

Another point is the change to Monastery. Now that it lost the specialist, would it be possible to return the faith cost reduction to the opener? After playing a lot with the change to the tree, I have to admit that it's consistently awkward buying all my faith buildings and spreading my religion before unlocking that policy, especially cause it's so deep and even out of the way.

 

[CrazyG]

Its not the power, its the trade off. Generally, I'm going to only have the big growth numbers when trading with civs a lot weaker than I am (get that early popular/influence). That means I am not getting the science and culture rubberbands from trading with the big civs, or the raw hammers of internal trade routes.

And if I am going for CV, then I'm missing out on the key tourism bonuses that need to go to the civ that I have the least tourism with.

So yes the growth looks nice....until you compare it to what else you can get.

I get more culture and science for having this influence than I would get from rubberbanding (and if I have tradition I usually lead in culture anyways)
I run one trade route to my biggest competitor to get the 20% bonus (I don't care about the tourism bonus for completing trade routes. Its totally unecessary in my experience)
With current building costs being so low, I'll happily take the gold over internal production. The % bonus to growth is worth far more than the food an internal route will earn

I always overlooked how valuable these were, until I had a game was Venice where my capital reached over 100 population. When you can stack a bunch of trade routes in the same city it really ads up.

 

[pineappledan]

Just the Beta 2 changes, near as I can make it:

Buildings
        University/Seowon - removed Forest Science
        Herbalist- removed food on Forest
        Workshop - removed Jungle buffs
        Factory/Steam Mill - removed Specialist bump, now grants Manufactories +2 Production
        Well/Watermill - now divided - Well generates +1p per 5 citizens, Watermill +1p per 4 citizens.
            These buildings scaled surprisingly well (ha), and needed a nerf.
        Floating Gardens - now +1f/p per 5 citizens (was +2 per 5)
        Agribusiness - loses 10% food, but gains +1 food on all worked farms and pastures
        Church - now boosts starting religious strength for all missionaries by 5% (up to 50% global)
            Prior effect created weird and un-fun strategies to only build missionaries in one city. This spreads the bonus out, encouraging investment.
        Note: due to it's absence, Zee might have its tourism on jungle back.
Wonders
        Oracle - free social policy gone - now grants 500 Golden Age Points and Culture instantly and a free Temple
        Removed Extra movement from Grand Canal promotion

        Lumbermill/Logging Camp (was Lumbermill (Jungle)) - shifted tech yield increases around a bit
            Moved Industrialization yield bump to Metallurgy - boosts Lumber mill by +1p, Logging Camp by +1g
            Bump at Combustion - now +2p (Logging Camp), +2g (Lumbermill)
            These no longer depend on fresh/nonfresh water (as that was always weird for feature-based tiles anyways)
Units
        Moved Nuclear Sub to Robotics
        Workboat starts with Sight Penalty, moves reduced to 2
        Battleship and Cruiser start with Range (so they'll max out at 2 range)
Specialists
        Specialists produce .5 unhappiness (was .25) - so 2 specialists = 1 unhappiness

I'm sure I missed some, oh well

Questions for G:
I noticed Zoo no longer is on the patch notes. did zoo get its tourism back?
How has burial tomb been affected by the reduction in city connection gold?

Comments:
So university is now 3, +25% on birth, 1 on jungle only. 1 scientist.
science will cost what it costs, but this building seems like a really inefficient conversion of prod to science now

Workshop used to be situational if you had forests/jungle, now it's even more so
2 maintenance, 350 cost, for +2, 1/1 on forest, 1 Engineer slot, and you can trade production
I'm surprised this didn't get any compensatory buff for removing both of the jungle buffs.

Glad to see pasture getting love on the agribusiness now.
I like the addition of the temple to oracle, I'm sad to see the religious buildings were not changed/added to Hagia Sophia/Angkor Wat/Borobudur. It seemed those proposed changes were well-received
Really glad to see the grande canal movement change. thanks G!

So am I reading that right, in that the production scales less on floating gardens than it does on water mill? It's still stronger because of food scaler, but I'm a bit surprised to see that. Are the base +1 to wells and +2/ to water mills unchanged?

EDIT: does this mean Battleship gets indirect fire back? has the RCS for battleship and cruiser been adjusted to compensate for the -20% RCS hit?

 

[Ziad]

@pineappledan

Workshops still buff Forest according to these notes, so it's still pretty good.

Forest is losing +1 from Herbalist and +1 from University.
Jungle is losing the +1 and +1 from Workshop.

Looks good to me.