Beta 9 Talk

[Nolan08]

This mod sounds really cool, but may I ask how it differentiates itself from SoI?

I mean, besides obviously the graphics. The Province system is similar, and I just heard about the Faith Points system. Does the Faith Points system affect a civilization's stability?

Oh, and I would like to add that I could help in any way that this mod has not yet been balanced.

I can play test and I am a huge historian buff (actually going to school to be a historian/archeologist), but I am not an expert at XML or Python.

 

[merijn_v1]

The best way to help is by playtesting the game and share your views.

You can look for the Faith Points and other things in the civilopedia. (When you play the game, you'll find out how everything works.)

 

[The Flame8]

Any way we can fix the constant defensive crusades that do absolutely nothing for Spain. Jerusalem usually never gets captured.

 

[Panopticon]

This mod sounds really cool, but may I ask how it differentiates itself from SoI?

I mean, besides obviously the graphics. The Province system is similar, and I just heard about the Faith Points system. Does the Faith Points system affect a civilization's stability?

The clue is in the name!

 

[youtien]

As Franks in 1041, after the end of turn, AI seems went to infinite loop. Please check the savefile.

 

[yogiebere]

Is there a point to the second Dutch settler?

In case something weird happens and gronginen isn't there. It's just an insurance policy I guess. Or if you conquer some random german city and want to settle. But then again why not just make one... good point.

 

[Daffy]

In case something weird happens and gronginen isn't there. It's just an insurance policy I guess. Or if you conquer some random german city and want to settle. But then again why not just make one... good point.

I've had the situation more than once that both Groningen and Antwerpen aren't there.
I usually glad to have the 2nd settler even if I use it to found a 4th city in the Netherlands(cathedral req.) or go for the resources on the Portuguese islands(which I've only done once, too ahistorical for my gameplay).

you can always disband the 2nd settler if you don't need him (or explore/contact civs)
I usually send out a worker to do that though

 

[Morholt]

Hungary's 3rd UHV seems to not work. It is never checked.

 

[djmax101]

Playing as the Ottomans, the province of Bosnia never seems to have a city settled in it. As such, the first UHV effectively requires you to conquer the neighboring Venetian cities in their long coastal province (Dalmatica I think?) and potentially the other Croatian province to open up enough culture to place a settler. I'm not sure if this is intentional, it's just sort of a funny result.

 

[urban]

Just finished a Norse game. First, in the winning "history of Europe" video, I saw that Genoa settled Malta, which is awesome.It revolted, but still. Now, if only the Hospitaliers were there... Got to say, it was tight getting to Palermo before it turtled too much, but also keeping all of Normandy in my territory.

Sent 1st two settlers to Crimea and Normandy. Screw Denmark (not really - one of my fav countries). Germany settled it eventually which gave me a big hit to stability, but not until after I got the first UHVs - so what if Dublin and Palermo revolt? Actually, I did not like the powerhouse of Palermo revolting, but what with no open borders with Cordoba, what was I to do?

Anyway, one to Crimea, one to Western Normandy - if you send it to Calais, France will put a city in W. Normandy, which screws your stability. Get the Western one, and then hurry to conquer indy Calais or get a settler there. Send two boats with the swordsman, the archer and the berzers to Dublin, then the berzers in BOTH boats to Palermo. Otherwise the Cordobans sink you. Then its just a race to get all the parts for the 2nd UHV.

Great work again,

Urban in South Boston on St. Patty's.

 

[yogiebere]

First, in the winning "history of Europe" video, I saw that Genoa settled Malta, which is awesome.

wait which video? and good to see. If only they would get palermo... (seriously they should spawn with it otherwise they have no chance of doing anything at all)

So I know 3miro hasn't been on much lately, real life > than this, but I'm proposing some changes to the stability maps. First of all, there should be a dynamic map for stability (and UHV, its often hard to picture some of the territorial areas, like lithuania I had to like go around checking which provinces were which until I finally got an idea of what area I had to conquer). I think its to the point where stability is actually playable, but often hard on early civs. I think there should be a +10 stability at the start of each civ (going down 1 after each turn) to encourage quick expansion.

Also what is the system for how it work? It seems like -3 for OK and -6 for unstable? and + some for solid?

There should be more OKs and more Solid. Austria for example has a really tight map. Can't take anything german other than augsburg and cant even touch the bulgarians or polish.

I would love to know what the system for civics is too (and everything stability for that matter)

 

[simonsays408]

Love the mod, but think there are some pretty big inaccuracies regarding Burgundy civ. There was in 843 a Kingdom of Burgundy based along the Rhone valley but it didn't last very long and didn't have much of a historical impact. The real Burgundians (including Philip the Good, who was well-chosen as the civ-leader) were the Valois-Burgundians who reigned 1366-1477. Both political entities lasted relatively short amounts of time, but the latter was far more important to European history.

For the game, Burgundy should be beefed up to weaken France and Germany and to play a part in their persistent squabbles and those with England also, but starting in 1366 (or maybe a bit earlier) rather than the very inaccurate 843, which is the year that the first Kingdom of Burgundy was incorporated into Lotharingia as a subservient duchy, rather than the founding of the second Kingdom of Burgundy which was in 933.

As a compromise the start date could be postponed until 1015 when the first Capetian Duke of Burgundy obtained the right to pass on the duchy to his heirs in perpetuity. No matter what, 843 is just too early for Burgundy.

 

[Veshta]

On the problem of the Longbow:
How about introducing a material requirement in the form of Timber (Replaceable Parts)?
- Puts it closer to its historical date (1300+), splits research options from the must-have Chivalry into Guns-or-Bows and gives more time for arbalests and guisamier to make an impact.

Timber requirement is also semi-accurate as the wood used for longbows was often imported from far away to meet sufficient standard.

 

[Nolan08]

But here goes. I think this mod needs more minor civs for the major civs to conquer. So far, the map is fairly empty of cities in the early game, which is kind of ironic because Europe has never been an empty place haha

Also, maybe more units should be distributed to the earlier civs in order for them to make their civs more compatible later game. First obvious example is the French/Holy Roman Empire/Charlemagne. Or if that's not implementable, then at least maybe an Epic/Marathon version of the game.

Byzantines obviously have a problem, but that's probably being corrected.

 

[yogiebere]

Love the mod, but think there are some pretty big inaccuracies regarding Burgundy civ. There was in 843 a Kingdom of Burgundy based along the Rhone valley but it didn't last very long and didn't have much of a historical impact. The real Burgundians (including Philip the Good, who was well-chosen as the civ-leader) were the Valois-Burgundians who reigned 1366-1477. Both political entities lasted relatively short amounts of time, but the latter was far more important to European history.

For the game, Burgundy should be beefed up to weaken France and Germany and to play a part in their persistent squabbles and those with England also, but starting in 1366 (or maybe a bit earlier) rather than the very inaccurate 843, which is the year that the first Kingdom of Burgundy was incorporated into Lotharingia as a subservient duchy, rather than the founding of the second Kingdom of Burgundy which was in 933.

As a compromise the start date could be postponed until 1015 when the first Capetian Duke of Burgundy obtained the right to pass on the duchy to his heirs in perpetuity. No matter what, 843 is just too early for Burgundy.

I couldn't agree more. I've always had problems with how Burgundy is basically like a little crappy independent nation that only serves as a buffer between The French. and quick expansion of South Eastern France.

My main issue is that they usually get Dijon, Lyon, Marseilles, and thats it! (lately they've been better but still). Not sure what the settler maps are like anymore (still would love to see stuff about that) but they never get the belgium, luxembourg, strasbourg area, which historically during the hundred years war was their territory.

I like the idea that they play a brief (say 900-1400) role in the historical events and then taper out to a stronger France who then starts to boost into colonization and renaissance era research. Unfortunately they usually just vassalize and become a crappy pawn of other nations (not unlike Genoa, Venezia, Portugal, Hungary, and Poland). Something as late as 1360 just wouldnt work, sorry. How the game is set up currently is that they have to start somewhat early (before 1000 preferably) to get setup decently, improvements, city buildings, and research wise. 1015 could work very well, but right now the 834 date corresponds with the French due date (the ever development conflict between Charlemagne, the true "french", germany, HRE, and austria).
The main issue with the mod is it just can't represent the true dynamic course of events accurately. Example: plague takes ~50 years in game, took ~3 years in real life.

*I still think many of the later nations need research boosts, it's just unfair when you spawn as Portugal or Genoa and are already 4-6 techs behind larger more established nations.

 

[Daffy]

I wouldn't say that Portugal requires a tech boost in beta 9

No. 1 in score, first to build a colony, built 13 colonies so far
Built all wonders I aimed for (torre de belem, paco de ribeira etc.)
without killing Spain (I never attack them with Portugal)

 

[Panopticon]

My main issue is that they usually get Dijon, Lyon, Marseilles, and thats it! (lately they've been better but still). Not sure what the settler maps are like anymore (still would love to see stuff about that) but they never get the belgium, luxembourg, strasbourg area, which historically during the hundred years war was their territory.

I like the idea that they play a brief (say 900-1400) role in the historical events and then taper out to a stronger France who then starts to boost into colonization and renaissance era research. Unfortunately they usually just vassalize and become a crappy pawn of other nations (not unlike Genoa, Venezia, Portugal, Hungary, and Poland).

They got up to Antwerp in one game I played... as the Netherlands. Obviously they lost it afterwards.

I think it is too easy to vassalise peacefully in RFC Europe. Most of the civs we encounter were about as powerful as each other IRL and didn't engage in subservient agreements like vassalisation. Even if they did, those agreements certainly did not include a defence commitment on the part of the senior partner. It's fine in RFC, where there were genuinely large power differences between some civs, e.g. France/Mali or Spain/Aztecs. But it's just too powerful a mechanic in RFC Europe.

 

[djmax101]

I couldn't agree more. I've always had problems with how Burgundy is basically like a little crappy independent nation that only serves as a buffer between The French. and quick expansion of South Eastern France.

My main issue is that they usually get Dijon, Lyon, Marseilles, and thats it! (lately they've been better but still). Not sure what the settler maps are like anymore (still would love to see stuff about that) but they never get the belgium, luxembourg, strasbourg area, which historically during the hundred years war was their territory.

They've been taking over Belgium and the lowlands in the games I've been playing in Version 9 before eventually being conquered by the French or Germans. I was surprised because they weren't doing this in pre-9.

 

[Wessel V1]

Semi-bugreport: as the French, I conquered, Poznan which gave me 25 stability points instantly. I switched to imperialism a while ago, so I assume it had something to do with this? I've got quite a few cities in this save (Napoleon would be jealous) so I think the game updated the stability bonus at the time I got a new city.

By the way, I shouldn't be at +60 stability at this point of the game. Does someone else find the current system too forgiving? Because this is a rather long game the only civs I've tried so far are Moscow and France (not the hardest to get a large empire), but nevertheless I have the feeling that it should be a bit harder to expand.

 

[3Miro]

Hi everyone. I will back in business for the next couple of days, however, towards the end of next week I will be gone again. I will try to address as many of the bugs as I can find and fix and send out a new Beta, especially since this one has been around for quite some time.

To summarize the main issues:
- Stability seems too much. We started as a very restrictive scheme and now we are at a very loose scheme. Either that, or there is a major bug.
- Longbowman need to be delayed.

The rest of the changes would probably have to wait.