Beta Gauntlet IV

[WastinTime]

There it is. 960 AD.

I only had 1 cow and some flood plains. Stone was 1 tile out of my fat cross.
Again, not a spectacular start, but it had a nice river running through it and I put my city on a hills/plains for the extra hammer.

I was Liz, but it played like Catherine. I got around 20 huts. (I usually get 2 or 3.) I had 3 warriors and 3 scouts combing the land. I think this had little impact on the game though. I popped 4 techs, but really only 1 mattered (bronze).

 

[BlueRenner]

Welcome to the club. I think I'll put in another game tomorrow (maybe two), but I really don't anticipate getting the fabled 880AD win.

This is going to go to score then.. most unsatisfying. Lets not do Normal speed games again, eh?

- Bill

 

[WastinTime]

I think with a Stone + Gems start, I can get 880. I'm really gonna hold out for a good start this time. I just generated one with 16 flood plains. Even on Noble you start with -8 unhealthy to your +6 healthy. I think I'll regen.

 

[BlueRenner]

Mm. I still haven't figured out what you're doing. I can't see the early research boost from Gems being all that important..

Unless you're gunning for Oracle -> Education. Should be possible, but I'm not sure the sacrifice to get there is worth it...

- Bill

 

[BlueRenner]

Heh. Now, see what happens when you start thinking aloud? I pulled an 880AD win with Elizibeth, with a full turn to spare (UN in 720AD). Examining the game against my 960AD wins, I believe that this time can be beat. I had a very awkward start.

As I mentioned above, the key here is using the Oracle to get you Education. It can be done... you sacrifice quite a bit to get there, both in terms of growth and unnecessary teching, but in the end the beaker gain is worth it.

My start was nothing special. Just some flood plains, and a wine+hills tile that I moved my first settler onto. I found four technologies from huts, only one which was significant (Masonry). The others were AI trade-techs.

- Bill

 

[Big_Ben]

Congrats Bill.

I haven't tried going for education w/ Oracle yet. I may try that this game. Did you tech theology or use a prophet? I think going to Education will be hard, I am sometimes beaten to the Oracle if I go for paper. I don't think waiting for a prophet will work since you would have to chop Stonehenge when you could be pumping out another settler. But you did say you have to make sacrifices.

Not sure on the AI selection either. I would imagine if you stayed away from spiritual civs you would almost be gauranteed the Oracle-Education but not sure on how that will play out relations wise. Getting ready to give it a quick try.

 

[Big_Ben]

It is actually easier than I thought to get education. I missed the Oracle by about 2 turns. Was 1 turn from getting paper so I could make the jump. I founded 12 cities, #11 at 700 BC and #12 at 575 BC. Lost the Oracle in 500 BC. I think if I would have only founded 10 cities I would have made it for sure, 11 would have still been iffy. I lost it to Victoria so I am going to leave her out next game and see if that helps.

I went with all non-spiritual civs. Tech path went Bronze-Poly-priesthood-pottery-mono-theology(prophet)-paper. Once I had the first settler from my capital I chopped Stonehenge and a hindu temple for the priest. Not a bad strat at all. It's just like what I was going for Oracle-Paper in the beginning of the thread, just going 1 step further. Education is a big beaker saver though, not to mention the early Universities.

 

[WastinTime]

I was wondering what all the talk about Paper was about. I was always going for education with the oracle and getting it in my first few games. Then I realized that it's safer and maybe a bit faster for me to go for Civil Service instead. Bureaucracy can accelerate you to education. That's how I got down from 1100's to 960.

But here's how I recall my tech path. Bronze -> Pottery -> alphabet -> (trade for Myst and sometimes Poly) -> Priest -> then I tried both mono - theo and the Code of Laws/Civil Serv path to Paper. I've never used a great prophet to speed this up. I avoid them. I don't build Stonehenge because of them.
You don't need priesthood early because you're not building the oracle until after Paper.

 

[WastinTime]

You're always one step ahead of me BlueRenner, congrats.

I didn't really expect to break 1000 with my attack plan. I doubt I'll be able to get the new target year of 800 AD. (that's next after 880 right?). Well, if I can't win this, I'd like some of my strategy to be used, so I'll put it all on the table. I think many of you will find this a whole new challenge--kinda like Gauntlet 4b. So if you're bored of the same old Gauntlet 4 games, read on.

I've been winning the Diplomatic Victory with just 13-14 votes of my own. I don't build 12 cities, nor 7 cities. I don't build any. Just the one massive science center. I'd be glad to share some of my tricks, but I wanna let you have some of the fun of discovering them yourselves first. I think you'll really enjoy this approach.

Now it's probably clearer why a strong start helps me so much.
Food resources are not that important. Once I had a rice tile I never used except for the health bonus.

Have fun!

 

[BlueRenner]

Wow.. you've completely lost me, WastinTime. Are you doing a One-City Challenge? You must, to keep the population so low... but how? No settlers means lots of hammers, but then you need those for the wonders you have to build. I really can't wrap my head around this one.

My path to Education involves buiding Stonehenge in my capital instead of a 4th settler, and then using the prophet to discover Theology. No priests involved (with Elizibeth) -- build Stonehenge by 2400BC or so and the prophet generates naturally.

This tactic reduces the expected number of cities from 13 to 10, but I think I can boost that back to 12. I'm still convinced this is the optimum number.

If you look through Noble games on the Hall of Fame, you'll see that the AI typicaly completes the Oracle between 875BC and 300BC. In my game, I built it in 850BC, meaning there was a slight chance of missing it. I believe that to get a top score, this is a chance that must be taken, and it appears that Elizibeth is the only one in any position to really benefit from it.

- Bill

 

[Big_Ben]

OCC? That is craziness. I thought about trying it a couple days ago but I didn't think there would be anyway you could keep up the tech pace with only one city. It would definitely be a faster start if you didn't have to build all the settlers and you could keep 100% tech rate the entire game. You could probably collect enough gold from trading to buy the UN but then you have to have the pyramids for universal suffrage.

Thats an interesting take on how to pull off this challenge, crazy though. I will give it a shot next time I play to see if I can get anywhere near 1000 AD with it. Right now my record is just 1100. Looks like I am only going to get top 10 again We'll see what I can do with your idea.

 

[WastinTime]

I told you it was crazy. Who knows, maybe I'm a terrible civ player and someone will get 600AD with OCC. I got my experience playing a lot of OCC on the Diety level. I've even won a Diplo victory on Diety, standard size and speed with RANDOM opponents. The secret to those games is fast tech, so I immediately knew I could tech quickly on this Gauntlet using OCC.

Don't be discouraged with a 1400 finish for your first OCC. There are dozens of new strategic choices to work out. You can get that down to sub 1100 after a few tries. I look forward to your reports, and I'm happy to answer questions.

 

[Shillen]

Are you checking the OCC option when you start the game so you can build national wonders or is this like ghetto OCC?

 

[BlueRenner]

Add a One City Challenge Space Race to my Gauntlet wish-list. This definately bears greater investigation.

- Bill

 

[Big_Ben]

Just played another OCC but didn't finish. I hit the Oracle-Education just fine and was just about even with my normal times through Astronomy or so. After that it is purely downhill. I was at 900 AD teching Physics with 20 turns left.

My problem was that my happiness capped me at 11 pop until the end. I just traded for construction and could have chopped a coliseum but that doesn't help that much. I got a great prophet that I should have used to found Christianity for the +1 happiness from the temple and the extra tech bonus from the monastery.

A good start is very key. I started on a plains hill with stone and 4-5 flood plains in my city. Had a couple food resources just outside. Happiness resources are the key though. Or an abundance or something you can trade with.

This is a pretty fast game and lets me micromanage a lot more since I don't have 10 cities to watch. I may play this a couple more times and see what kind of time I can get with it.

How many GP are you generating? I put out 4 (2 GE, 2 GP) and could have put out atleast 1-2 more before the end of the game. I didn't go for music since it was 5 turns I think, but I may next time. If I can get lucky enough with my great people and avoid prophets I think I can get 2 GE and 4 either GS or GA. Add in the GA from music and the GS from phsyics and you get electricity and mass media for free. This has some possibilities.

I am thinking about building 1 extra city to put the Oracle in. That would let me control my GP a lot easier. Not sure if it would hurt my tech % that much. I was running 100% the entire game and managed +3 gold from trades.

 

[fluffyflyingpig]

OCC space races are somewhat crapshootish but fun--OCC conquest is where it's at.

Odd that 70% of my other CIV games have been OCCs and yet I didn't try one for this gauntlet.

 

[WastinTime]

Hey Big_Ben,

Great to hear you're trying the OCC. You need to check OCC. There are some rule changes. More than 2 national wonders as Shillen mentioned, but the one KEY rule change for OCC is that you only need 1 university for the Oxford University! Now, start over with OCC checked and try that if you haven't already.

I usually get 6 GP with Liz I think. I run pacifism too. Sometimes I build the National Epic.

Music should only cost you 2 turns, otherwise, you're researching it too soon.

Happiness...you nailed it. It's a big problem. You can have all the food in the world, but can't work the towns without happiness. It can be tough to trade for it. I can't imagine you can get a decent finish without size 13 - 15.

 

[Big_Ben]

I checked OCC the first time but had to restart since the map sucked after I explored, forgot to check it the second time. I think I can get 13-15 happiness pretty easily, the question is, can i get it early enough? I will probalby try 1-2 OCC attempts and a couple normal attempts before the end of the gauntlet. We will see what I can do. Thanks for the idea though. It is an interesting challenge.

 

[Fragment]

Happiness...you nailed it. It's a big problem. You can have all the food in the world, but can't work the towns without happiness. It can be tough to trade for it. I can't imagine you can get a decent finish without size 13 - 15.

Hi, the solution to all happiness problems in OCC is usually the Globe Theater national wonder. Don't know if that's too late/too great a deviation for you gauntlet-players, I'm not the gauntlet type

Regards.

 

[Big_Ben]

If you get lucky with a trade for drama early you may be able to benefit from it. I managed to control my happiness on a OCC attempt and was only limited by health/food production in the end. Capped my city at 13. Played the game rather well. Managed a 1300 OCC finish, which I think is pretty good. I have had trouble getting the Oracle with Lizzie so I played as Qin. My start wasn't that good. On a plains hill with flood plains, 3 silks, 2 sugar, sheep hill. I built cottages on 2 of the silks and 1 of the sugar.

If I would have had gems I think it would have been a couple turns faster. Great people kind of hurt me too. I managed to generate 2 GA (1 from music), 4 GE, 1 GS (from physics). If I would have made 2 more scientists instead of engineers I could have shortened the game a few turns as well.

I have no idea how you are managing a sub 1000 win with OCC. I could see 1100 being doable but you have to have an amazing start to finish sub 1000. Congratulations on that, btw. This was probably my last OCC attempt. They were fun but I think I have a better chance playing normally. Playing OCC did help me learn a few things. Going to see if applying them to a normal game can get me sub 1000.