"Beta" Massive WW2 scenario
- Thread starter Meateater
- Start date
Meateater,
Thank you for the links.
They seems to be interesting, one thing though:
When I add all the different types for 1939 it
seems be about 2.000 aircraft contrary to the total
numbers stats in the other link.
Have I missed something?
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Thank you for the links.
They seems to be interesting, one thing though:
When I add all the different types for 1939 it
seems be about 2.000 aircraft contrary to the total
numbers stats in the other link.
Have I missed something?
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Yeah that's what I got 1,946 when added up. The 8,295 total is for all military types for that country. That is just how it is, I could give you two other sites that list the 8,295 all types totals for Germany.
Ok now look at the German invading force against Poland. They used 1,700 aircraft, so I think the 2,000 is more correct for total combat aircraft.
Ok now look at the German invading force against Poland. They used 1,700 aircraft, so I think the 2,000 is more correct for total combat aircraft.
Yeah that first link was cool with the list of German aircraft, I wish I found other countries too. The stats can be found for other countries but it is going to take more time, because each aircraft will need to be looked in to.
American aircraft of WW2
Time for me to take an eight hour nap though.
American aircraft of WW2
Time for me to take an eight hour nap though.
Regarding off-topic discussions:
I am glad that this thread since some weeks is back to topic.
I have never understand why so many WWI/WWII/WWIII
threads goes off-topic. (Look around at some threads here
and you will see what I mean.)
These off-topics discussions often ends up in National-Hatred
posts. It reminds me of the 12 million men that marched
to a certain death during WWI SINGING!
Edit: It also reminds me of a letter in a wargamer "fanzine"
30 years ago. The man who wrote the letter said that
he only played wargames where he could "kill" communists......
I thought it was so bizarre that I still remember it.
Rocoteh
I am glad that this thread since some weeks is back to topic.
I have never understand why so many WWI/WWII/WWIII
threads goes off-topic. (Look around at some threads here
and you will see what I mean.)
These off-topics discussions often ends up in National-Hatred
posts. It reminds me of the 12 million men that marched
to a certain death during WWI SINGING!
Edit: It also reminds me of a letter in a wargamer "fanzine"
30 years ago. The man who wrote the letter said that
he only played wargames where he could "kill" communists......
I thought it was so bizarre that I still remember it.
Rocoteh
Well I think it has something to do with these topics WW1, WW2, they just offer so much to discuss or debate about it is easy to get off topic.
I get burned out so now and then I need a break from this stuff, so I will play some Call of Duty or BF 1942 and get in some front line action.
Yeah some people have thier own things, just like how some people only play with one civ all the time( I saw it in a thread), even though now you have 31 to choose from.
Well back to searching sites for information for me.
I get burned out so now and then I need a break from this stuff, so I will play some Call of Duty or BF 1942 and get in some front line action.
Yeah some people have thier own things, just like how some people only play with one civ all the time( I saw it in a thread), even though now you have 31 to choose from.
Well back to searching sites for information for me.
Meateater,
Yes, I can understand that type of off-topic discussions,
they can have a role to play. What I react against are
the more or less hate-discussions. Nothing good have
ever came from National-hatred.
-------------------------------------------
With regard to sources I recommend the download
of Pacific War. Even though it starts December 1941,
you will still have great use for it. The game was designed
by Gary Grigsby, a top-quality historian of the some class as
James Dunnigan. Its sad that Grigsby, due to the lack
of interest for serious wargames seems to have a limited
base to operate from now.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Yes, I can understand that type of off-topic discussions,
they can have a role to play. What I react against are
the more or less hate-discussions. Nothing good have
ever came from National-hatred.
-------------------------------------------
With regard to sources I recommend the download
of Pacific War. Even though it starts December 1941,
you will still have great use for it. The game was designed
by Gary Grigsby, a top-quality historian of the some class as
James Dunnigan. Its sad that Grigsby, due to the lack
of interest for serious wargames seems to have a limited
base to operate from now.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
I will have to check the pacific war out, sounds like it should provide good information.
Here is an instresting info sheet for the U.S. navy and marines aircrafthttp://www.history.navy.mil/avh-1910/APP04.PDF here is something for the U.S. airforcehttp://www.maxwell.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/usaf_wingforce_structure/1940s.htm and last but not least the army air armhttp://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Camp/7624/tables/AirForceII.htm
I plan on finishing up the United States military with the next update, hopefully in the next 24 hours. If it looks good then Germany will be started on next.
Here is an instresting info sheet for the U.S. navy and marines aircrafthttp://www.history.navy.mil/avh-1910/APP04.PDF here is something for the U.S. airforcehttp://www.maxwell.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/usaf_wingforce_structure/1940s.htm and last but not least the army air armhttp://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Camp/7624/tables/AirForceII.htm
I plan on finishing up the United States military with the next update, hopefully in the next 24 hours. If it looks good then Germany will be started on next.
Meateater,
Very interesting links.
A comment on US "teeth to tail ratio":
US Army
These stats refers to 1945 but the ratio was the same
during the whole war: Soldiers in non-combat formations:
5 millions.Soldiers in combat fomations 2 millions. Only
50% of these were organized in the Divisions. The rest:
1 million man were spread out in independent battalions.
US Army was unique in these aspects during WWII.
During the Vietnam war teeth to tail ratio reached a
all time low, with less than 20% in combat formations.
Moshe Dayan pointed out this fact as the main reason
why US never managed to defeat NVA and the Vietcong.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Very interesting links.
A comment on US "teeth to tail ratio":
US Army
These stats refers to 1945 but the ratio was the same
during the whole war: Soldiers in non-combat formations:
5 millions.Soldiers in combat fomations 2 millions. Only
50% of these were organized in the Divisions. The rest:
1 million man were spread out in independent battalions.
US Army was unique in these aspects during WWII.
During the Vietnam war teeth to tail ratio reached a
all time low, with less than 20% in combat formations.
Moshe Dayan pointed out this fact as the main reason
why US never managed to defeat NVA and the Vietcong.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
I just can't help myself I have so many WW2 site in my folders WW2 divisions and Info on those divisions
From the first link they list (Component) as RA, AUS, NG, and OR could you explain this some to me, I think it has something to do with what the divisions role was.
From the first link they list (Component) as RA, AUS, NG, and OR could you explain this some to me, I think it has something to do with what the divisions role was.
Meateater,
RA = Regular Army
NG = National Guard
AUS = Since most them are Armored Divisions and only a few
Infantry Divisions my guess is that the AUS Infantry had
a tank battalion attached on regular basis.
OR = Once again a guess, At least one of the regiments
was draftee. AUS and OR are my guess, then I have
read many books, magazines and so on about the
American Army in WWII and my advise is that you
shall ignore the above.
If you look to history: Many of the Regular units that
were rushed in from Japan to Korea to stop the Communist
invasion had the lowest morale in the history of the US Army.
(When you hear the patter of little feet, its the US Army
in full retreat) That is from Korea 1950.
When units from the National Guard started to arrive morale
increased.
That was one example to show that Regulars were not
better than National Guard units.
Then again with regard to what I read I think you can
ignore the above in your scenario.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
RA = Regular Army
NG = National Guard
AUS = Since most them are Armored Divisions and only a few
Infantry Divisions my guess is that the AUS Infantry had
a tank battalion attached on regular basis.
OR = Once again a guess, At least one of the regiments
was draftee. AUS and OR are my guess, then I have
read many books, magazines and so on about the
American Army in WWII and my advise is that you
shall ignore the above.
If you look to history: Many of the Regular units that
were rushed in from Japan to Korea to stop the Communist
invasion had the lowest morale in the history of the US Army.
(When you hear the patter of little feet, its the US Army
in full retreat) That is from Korea 1950.
When units from the National Guard started to arrive morale
increased.
That was one example to show that Regulars were not
better than National Guard units.
Then again with regard to what I read I think you can
ignore the above in your scenario.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Meateater,
One important note with regard to US Infantry Divisions:
I should advise you to make all US Infantry Divisions
Mech Infantry, since in COMBAT they had the same mobility
and more firepower than the German Panzergrenadier
division, which is the origin of all modern mech-infantry
formations. It should also have some intrinsic artillery-power
although the value of that is limited within the current
game engine.
Let us look at V Corps June 1944, It consisted of
1, 28 and 29 Infantry divisions. When going into combat
"the pool" would reinforce those 3 divisions with:
9 Tank and Tank-destroyer Battalions and 6 Artillery
Battalions. In addition they were backed up by 2
independent infantry Regiments.
I am looking forward to hear what you think about this idea.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
One important note with regard to US Infantry Divisions:
I should advise you to make all US Infantry Divisions
Mech Infantry, since in COMBAT they had the same mobility
and more firepower than the German Panzergrenadier
division, which is the origin of all modern mech-infantry
formations. It should also have some intrinsic artillery-power
although the value of that is limited within the current
game engine.
Let us look at V Corps June 1944, It consisted of
1, 28 and 29 Infantry divisions. When going into combat
"the pool" would reinforce those 3 divisions with:
9 Tank and Tank-destroyer Battalions and 6 Artillery
Battalions. In addition they were backed up by 2
independent infantry Regiments.
I am looking forward to hear what you think about this idea.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Meateater,
I have done some more research and here you
have Germanys ground forces at the Polish border
in position to attack.
I choose standard NATO symbols for size of unit:
iii = Regiment or SS-Standarte
x = Brigade
xx = Division
-------------
In East-Prussia East-West 12Inf xx, 15Inf xx, 61Inf xx
Kempf Panzer xx, 11Inf xx, 1Cavalry x,217Inf xx, 21 Inf xx
3 Artillery x, 228Inf xx
-------------------
Along the German-Polish border: North-South
207Inf xx, 32 Inf xx, 3Inf xx, 4 Artillery x, 2 Mot. Inf xx,
3Panzer xx, 206Inf xx, 208Inf xx, 73Inf xx,218Inf xx,
20Mot. Inf xx, 50Inf xx, 23Inf xx
Now at Breslau North-South
24Inf xx, 8Artillery x, 30Inf xx, LAH SS Infantry iii, 10Inf xx,
17Inf xx, 13Mot. Inf xx, 14Inf xx, 18Inf xx, 1Panzer xx,
29Mot Inf xx, 10Artillery x, 25Panzer iii, 4Panzer xx,19 Inf xx,
1Light xx, 2Light xx, 3Light xx, 31Inf xx, 4Inf xx, 46Inf xx,
258Inf xx, 257Inf xx, 252 Inf xx,27 Inf xx, 11Panzer iii,
5Panzer xx, 8Inf xx, Germania SS Inf iii, 28Inf xx, 239Inf xx,
14Artillery x
Deployed in Slovakia: 7Inf xx, 44Inf xx, 45Inf xx, 62Inf xx,
213Inf xx, 221Inf xx, 4Light xx, 3Mountain xx,2Panzer xx
West-East
The Light Divisions should in my opinion be represented
by a PzI unit. They were hybrid Divisions, later in -39
upgraded to Panzer Divisions.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
I have done some more research and here you
have Germanys ground forces at the Polish border
in position to attack.
I choose standard NATO symbols for size of unit:
iii = Regiment or SS-Standarte
x = Brigade
xx = Division
-------------
In East-Prussia East-West 12Inf xx, 15Inf xx, 61Inf xx
Kempf Panzer xx, 11Inf xx, 1Cavalry x,217Inf xx, 21 Inf xx
3 Artillery x, 228Inf xx
-------------------
Along the German-Polish border: North-South
207Inf xx, 32 Inf xx, 3Inf xx, 4 Artillery x, 2 Mot. Inf xx,
3Panzer xx, 206Inf xx, 208Inf xx, 73Inf xx,218Inf xx,
20Mot. Inf xx, 50Inf xx, 23Inf xx
Now at Breslau North-South
24Inf xx, 8Artillery x, 30Inf xx, LAH SS Infantry iii, 10Inf xx,
17Inf xx, 13Mot. Inf xx, 14Inf xx, 18Inf xx, 1Panzer xx,
29Mot Inf xx, 10Artillery x, 25Panzer iii, 4Panzer xx,19 Inf xx,
1Light xx, 2Light xx, 3Light xx, 31Inf xx, 4Inf xx, 46Inf xx,
258Inf xx, 257Inf xx, 252 Inf xx,27 Inf xx, 11Panzer iii,
5Panzer xx, 8Inf xx, Germania SS Inf iii, 28Inf xx, 239Inf xx,
14Artillery x
Deployed in Slovakia: 7Inf xx, 44Inf xx, 45Inf xx, 62Inf xx,
213Inf xx, 221Inf xx, 4Light xx, 3Mountain xx,2Panzer xx
West-East
The Light Divisions should in my opinion be represented
by a PzI unit. They were hybrid Divisions, later in -39
upgraded to Panzer Divisions.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
I uploaded version 1.9
I added a few more ships on the map and some marine and infantry reserves in a few cities. Both reserves played a roll in the war so I wanted to add them. I did a few other things too so check it out tell me what you think.
Thanks for the explanation for the Component for the divisions.
I gave the US infantry 2 move points, and gave them 10 bombard strength 0 range and 1 ROF, no blitz. I think it was the Soviets that said the US doesn't have infantry because all their soldiers ride in jeeps. So I agree with you there but I guess just want to keep the infantry art. They did hit the beaches on foot.
Nice stuff there for Germany. I will take your opinion and make the light divisions panzer 1s. Any ideas about what the other panzer divisions should be off the top of your head Pz2, Pz3? Should I put in a Czech tank, just rename a Pz1 once on the map.
The other thing I have been thinking about is the need to change the hit points for units. Just real quick I was thinking like 6 hp for a regular division, and that would be 2 hp for a regiment.
I added a few more ships on the map and some marine and infantry reserves in a few cities. Both reserves played a roll in the war so I wanted to add them. I did a few other things too so check it out tell me what you think.
Thanks for the explanation for the Component for the divisions.
I gave the US infantry 2 move points, and gave them 10 bombard strength 0 range and 1 ROF, no blitz. I think it was the Soviets that said the US doesn't have infantry because all their soldiers ride in jeeps. So I agree with you there but I guess just want to keep the infantry art. They did hit the beaches on foot.
Nice stuff there for Germany. I will take your opinion and make the light divisions panzer 1s. Any ideas about what the other panzer divisions should be off the top of your head Pz2, Pz3? Should I put in a Czech tank, just rename a Pz1 once on the map.
The other thing I have been thinking about is the need to change the hit points for units. Just real quick I was thinking like 6 hp for a regular division, and that would be 2 hp for a regiment.
Meateater,
Yes, 2 HP for regiment and 6 HP for division that
sounds good.
Tank strenght for the Panzer Divisions:
100 x PzI ,100 x PzII, 25x PzIII, 25 x PzIV
Since PzII was the MBT during the Polish Campaign, it
should maybe represent the Panzer Divisions.
I will do more research so you get an complete
German OOB FOR 1939.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Yes, 2 HP for regiment and 6 HP for division that
sounds good.
Tank strenght for the Panzer Divisions:
100 x PzI ,100 x PzII, 25x PzIII, 25 x PzIV
Since PzII was the MBT during the Polish Campaign, it
should maybe represent the Panzer Divisions.
I will do more research so you get an complete
German OOB FOR 1939.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Sounds good I did a little myself and have a few more sites. One thing I had trouble with is the U-boats and what flotilla they were in at the start of the war. U-boat .net is a good source I found. I found good battle groupings (flotilla) for most of the rest of the ships. I found the Kriegsmarine chronology but I can't read it, here is the link if anyone wants to check it outhttp://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/chronik.htm here is another cool site
http://www.geocities.com/kriegsmarine1939/surface.htm
http://www.geocities.com/kriegsmarine1939/surface.htm
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