Beta v4.X - General Discussion

[Sneaks]

Speaking of:

I think its high time to remove the lock outs of Autocracy and Liberty. While the policy names make sense for exclusion, the contents do not.

 

[Txurce]

Speaking of:

I think its high time to remove the lock outs of Autocracy and Liberty. While the policy names make sense for exclusion, the contents do not.

Presently it's part of the either-or approach that the devs wanted for SP's, as with Piety and Rationalism. I almost always like the idea of paying some sort of rice for going in one direction.

 

[Thalassicus]

I actually don't see it as a downside. We can un-spend the whole Liberty tree and get up to 6 free policies in the late game, all just for a moment's anarchy! It's sort of like civic switching in earlier civ games.

 

[Seek]

While I agree in theory, Txurce, I have *never* found that it was much of a price to miss Autocracy. As it stands now, nobody picks the tree, and removing one of the hurdles from the decision (blocking Liberty) is one great way to do it, I think. After all, isn't the philosophy behind this mod to create more options for players?

 

[Txurce]

While I agree in theory, Txurce, I have *never* found that it was much of a price to miss Autocracy. As it stands now, nobody picks the tree, and removing one of the hurdles from the decision (blocking Liberty) is one great way to do it, I think. After all, isn't the philosophy behind this mod to create more options for players?

I sometimes worry about too many options and not enough crossroads. But I do see that this wouldn't be an unfair change.

 

[Sneaks]

Autocracy badly needs to lose its exclusions with at least Liberty. Whenever I decide to go for a warmonger game, I always start with Liberty. It is easily the best early warmonger tree (Honor just isn't worth it in terms of maintaining a warmonger sized empire). That being said, I never end up getting Autocracy because of this.

 

[Txurce]

Autocracy badly needs to lose its exclusions with at least Liberty. Whenever I decide to go for a warmonger game, I always start with Liberty. It is easily the best early warmonger tree (Honor just isn't worth it in terms of maintaining a warmonger sized empire). That being said, I never end up getting Autocracy because of this.

I could interpret the exclusion as a way to limit the conquering approach. Additionally, wouldn't removing the exclusion put Honor where Autocracy is - the dead zone?

 

[Sneaks]

Autocracy is not a bad tree. It is necessarily much much worse because of the policy potential of the TWO trees it excludes. Honor is already in the dead zone for very different reasons.

 

[Seek]

Prepatch warmongering for me was usually one or two policies in Tradition or Liberty, Honor up the left then straight to Theocracy. It may be different now (haven't played a war game yet) but I think Honor will remain more useful simply because it's available at the start.

 

[Txurce]

Autocracy is not a bad tree. It is necessarily much much worse because of the policy potential of the TWO trees it excludes. Honor is already in the dead zone for very different reasons.

Exclusion issue aside, should Honor then be buffed as a war branch, so that it has enough kick to make it worthwhile? The entire tree would start making more sense then. Given how strong Liberty and Tradition are now, I would see no downside to making Honor powerful enough that it would be a more viable alternative to Liberty en route to Autocracy.

 

[Txurce]

v4.36 beta
I forgot a critical change was included in the patch, and updated to remove it from this mod. If you downloaded 4.34 or 4.35 please update immediately or you'll have quadruple tech costs in the late game.

• Scaled up tech costs throughout the game (slight change for early eras; close to double for Modern)

Legalism has been revised.
Building tooltips are missing.

 

[Thalassicus]

It's working okay for me when using only this mod:

 

[Txurce]

It's working okay for me when using only this mod:

That's what I meant!

The building tooltips are off, though, using WWGD and InfoAddict. They weren't yesterday with 4.33, oddly enough.

 

[Seek]

Legalism 'tip shows the old policy (1/2 unhappiness in cap) and gives both bonuses for me. Odd.

 

[Thalassicus]

@Txurce
If you're using WWGD did you disable infotooltipinclude in that mod?

@Seek
That's why I'm puzzled, because what you describe is what happens when there's lingering cache data (older and newer effects overlap). I'm not sure what might cause this situation with a clear cache and new game. I'll think about things you might try to solve the issue, though it might take me a while to come up with any ideas.

 

[Txurce]

@Txurce
If you're using WWGD did you disable infotooltipinclude in that mod?

Weird how that works every time...

 

[Thalassicus]

Though I just realized something better to point out: WWGD was included in this mod in a recent beta last week. No need to hassle with compatibility anymore.

 

[Sneaks]

By the by, I would suggest updating the discuss lua file for that section. It's in the newest WWGD version over on that thread.

 

[Txurce]

By the by, I would suggest updating the discuss lua file for that section. It's in the newest WWGD version over on that thread.

That's what I did, and the tooltips materialized.

 

[Thalassicus]

I did a compare between each lua file and the current post-patch version to ensure firaxis' changes are in there, though that wouldn't include any work you've done on it since then. I'll go take a look.