Better (Bug) AI Large 12 Deity

[Grashopa]

I feel the need to lose a few games so I've decided to play a little Deity with the latest Better AI. The map is a large Big and Small with 12 total civilizations and I'm playing with Joao who is Expansive and Imperialistic.

I'm using the Better Bug AI mod which combines BUG, BULL and Better AI:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=354019

Better AI is here.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=245

And the latest Better AI improvements:

Spoiler :

Merged in UP 1.6

Bugfixes
- AI now considers monuments a cultural building when evaluating techs (thanks denev)
- Fixed detection of when to have AIs go for wonders for cultural reasons in late game (thanks Fuyu)
- Fixed bug introduced with Lead from Behind which allowed siege units to attack cities/stacks with non-combat units after all defenders were knocked below the siege combat limit
- Fixed diplomatic side effects of new early game changes to AI_isLandTarget (thanks Fuyu)
- Fixed issue causing crashes with debug DLLs under rare circumstances (I think ...)

Victory strategy
- Tweaked Conquest 3 and 4 so that they work better for isolated starts and continents maps
- Boosted value of Apollo granting tech for civs running Space 2
- AIs going for diplo victory now more highly value techs allowing construction of diplo wonder
- AIs going for diplo victory now more highly value building wonders which allow diplo votes
- Vassals now a little more likely to try space strategy

War strategy
- Changes to encourage aggressive AI players to consider limited wars in early game to choke opponents, should make first couple eras a little less predictable in normal games
- If AI wants to declare war for a long time but doesn't and has no units moving to start war, it will eventually re-plan its wars (mainly handles case where AI can't move its units into position)
- If AI is preparing a dogpile attack and the enemies of its target break off war, then it will replan
- Improved AI detection of when its wars were cold and it might as well break them off
- When AI has many more units in enemy territory or en route than its enemies have in its territory, it is now less inclined make peace. Conversely, you can now move a big attack force into AI territory and sue for peace. Replaced prior flawed city danger based method and expanded to include non-Aggressive AI games.
- AI decisions to raze cities now factor in cultural victory, resources, how good a holy city is, and how likely the conquerer is to hold the city

War tactics
- Fixed issue where AI would pull back its troops to its own borders to regroup instead of regrouping in enemy territory
- AI now puts extra emphasis on state religion holy cities of enemies in picking target cities (thanks Lunar Mongoose)
- More changes to AI target city values to put higher value on wonders, holy cities, and needed resources

City AI
- AIs in isolated starts now will build fewer units until they meet somebody
- Turned down AI production of transports and attack ships when approaching unit spending caps

Tech AI
- Big boost to value placed on ocean-capable transports when AI has naval assault war plans

General AI
- Changed AI_enemyTargetMissionAIs to AI_enemyTargetMissions, now counts how many units are in enemy territory or making war like moves into potential enemy territory

Heres the start:

And heres my tech path:

Spoiler :

Its Big and Small, EPIC SPEED, and it appears like we're in the islands. Lets see what happens.

 

[shyuhe]

Settle 1W for the extra hill and 3 food city tile? I've never played better AI but it'll be interesting to see how smart it is

 

[Grashopa]

I'll post lots of saves if I survive long enough it will be interesting to world builder in and see what the AIs were doing. Perhaps someone can post spoilers with what the AIs are doing. But I do assume I'll have to drop down to immortal to actually have any chance.

EDIT:
Heres turn 11:

Spoiler :

 

[obsolete]

First thing I thought was the same, settle on Sugar.

Unfortunately I can't load the file, I guess cause of the Mod issue. BTW, the last time I saw a deity game played with a new IMPROVED AI, turned out it was nothing but a bag full of SUPER-CHEATS. Not really my idea of what an improved AI should be. That was the one where Acidtyre and the team went down in flames at the end.

 

[goodolarchie]

- Changes to encourage aggressive AI players to consider limited wars in early game to choke opponents, should make first couple eras a little less predictable in normal games

hmm... should be interesting!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

First thing I thought was the same, settle on Sugar.

Unfortunately I can't load the file, I guess cause of the Mod issue. BTW, the last time I saw a deity game played with a new IMPROVED AI, turned out it was nothing but a bag full of SUPER-CHEATS. Not really my idea of what an improved AI should be. That was the one where Acidtyre and the team went down in flames at the end.

Just so you know, BBAI does NOT add any cheats outside of what exists in stock BTS. Jdog is fairly adamant about keeping gameplay rules intact, so they're not going to be cheating any more than the amount you already know.

Of course, they will play more intelligently, which might mean deity isn't doable if they opt for one of those choke attacks or surprise raze invasions. Also bear in mind that the AI ACTUALLY TRIES TO WIN with this mod, as it has set victory condition plans depending on leader for everything but time, allowing it to better organize a winning strategy. Expect tighter worker micro and tile improvement optimization too (though it will still suck compared to humans), since BBAI has been paying attention to it ever since I started complaining over there about how the governor turns stupid when you build wealth/research.

 

[Grashopa]

Round 1 to 2000 BC ( turn 80 )

So as noted I'm boxed in, but B&S should hopefully give me islands I can settle. And of course I'm going for the Great Lighthouse because of that.

Spoiler :

I've already counted turns from experience and imagine I have a good chance to get the lighthouse in. Here I'm working commerce with the aim of workboat - lighthouse - worker in order to finish mining the open hill and stepping onto the forested hill the turn I get BW and can chop. I found stone to the SW and the warrior is coming back so I don't lose him. He'll be spawn busting south of the capital.

Spoiler :

Just another shot of the worker coming in before BW.

Spoiler :

Lighthouse is in, I decided to explore after Zara settled near me so I'm building a warrior in cap so I can get to size 5. This delays the Great Lighthouse by several turns... But should be fine and if I manage to settle one of the two stones I see now, I'll be happy.

Spoiler :

2300 BC alphabet...

Spoiler :

And GLh is in, now I have to decide on my next builds. I'm IMP and EXP, so I could go cheap granary next and do some 2 pop 135 hammer settler whips or just keep hammering them straight out.. Also should I settle on the spices next (I'll eventually get that banana) or galley settler on the island? My warrior was on the southern stone, but a dog warrior camped by it so I left since it would surely be settled before I got a settler out. Without the warrior build perhaps settler before GLh was possible but the game is over if I miss GLh so stone isn't worth that risk.

Spoiler :

 

[shyuhe]

Looks like merry island spam. Ugh. Might be worth sending a few exploratory WBs out to see if you can circumnavigate since you'll need boats this game.

The 2300 BC alphabet cracks me up Now if only you could beg it off of him!

 

[Grashopa]

I'll try, hadn't even thought of it.

 

[DMOC]

Thats incredibly bad luck you have with the start. I don't think I've had an AI start that close to me on a large standard map. Anyway, I have to agree with the island spam strategy.

 

[Grashopa]

I tried several starts to get a feel before this and the barb behavior must have changed because I had a lot of problems when I wasn't near another AI - they'd walk past my spawn busters on hills in order to get to the cities.

Anyway BBAI has fractional trade routes so island spam with the GLh should work out even better than normal especially with the cheaper harbors and the feitoria... its just a matter of how well the AIs manage their tiles on top of deity bonuses. I haven't actually played a game out yet so we'll see.

 

[Fleme]

You're a big man for playing Joao and an even bigger man for playing that start. (nothing wrong with the initial spot per say, but the block).

I'll be following with keen interest.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I tried several starts to get a feel before this and the barb behavior must have changed because I had a lot of problems when I wasn't near another AI - they'd walk past my spawn busters on hills in order to get to the cities.

Anyway BBAI has fractional trade routes so island spam with the GLh should work out even better than normal especially with the cheaper harbors and the feitoria... its just a matter of how well the AIs manage their tiles on top of deity bonuses. I haven't actually played a game out yet so we'll see.

Their attack courage + eval has definitely changed. IMO the barb thing is my least-liked change with BBAI as the barbs fighting intelligently with units that come from nowhere is very annoying at these levels. In addition to blowing by spawn busters the barbs will mostly pillage or move towards weaker cities.

Look out for the asinine-as-ever barb galley abuse too, but in THIS go around, you're going to get blockaded XD.

 

[Grashopa]

To 825 BC

He did give me alphabet I decided to research metal casting - I don't have marble or many hammers so skipped on aesthetics. The Ottomans picked up aesthetics just before I was given alphabet...

Spoiler :

This was probably a bad idea, each overseas city is +10 beakers.. and I delayed my 5th city a bunch by deciding to 4 pop whip a forge. Though I needed the workboats I built - it sucks not having hammers anywhere.. The other cities are whipping granary then monument for border pops.

Spoiler :

Great Library just went, the Ottomans beelined literature and built it while at war. Couple wars going on, I got dragged in against Hammurabi with 3 others attacking him I should be safe.

Spoiler :

Waiting for currency to open up for trade, math just did but MC for math? Should I try for the colossus without copper ? It does look like I'll have a chance here. After a border pop there is a new island I can get to so we'll see how many cities I end up with.

Spoiler :

I could have picked up stone, there was a stone/fish/desert site that didn't get settled and is actually probably still open. I was camping on it, but decided not to grab it. I'm not sure I care at this point.

 

[phungus420]

I'm curious to know if the latest AI builds (1.0 and above) are even beatable on diety, so thanks for playing this out; will be following with keen interest.

You should probably also be aware of these two things:

1) The AI can attack more then 1 target if it's doing well in a war; ie it no longer gets stuck in the whole "We have enough on our hands" rejection status and will continue to look for DoW targets if even if it's engaged in a war so long as it percieves it's much stronger then it's current oponent and it's next target. You will see run away AIs declare on multiple targets if they start going down the Domination victory path.
2) The "We have enough on our hands" diplo rejection is the last item on the AI's list now, so you wol't see WHEOOH warnings except for civs that are friendly to you.

So you'll definetaly need to be more careful. Other then that the AI changes are all basic things like worker logic and Victory Strategies. As TMIT stated the AI can make semi coherent plans if it thinks it has a chance of winning, specifically it has overarching logic tied to cultural, Domination, and Space Race.

 

[phungus420]

I've never played better AI but it'll be interesting to see how smart it is

Less stupid would be more accurate

 

[phungus420]

First thing I thought was the same, settle on Sugar.

Unfortunately I can't load the file, I guess cause of the Mod issue.

Since the AI is handled in the gamecore, Better AI, like the HoF mod has to be loaded as it's own proper mod, it can't just be put in custom assets. Better Bug AI is easy to use though, you just download it and install, just like the BUG mod, you can get it here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=354019

BTW, the last time I saw a deity game played with a new IMPROVED AI, turned out it was nothing but a bag full of SUPER-CHEATS. Not really my idea of what an improved AI should be. That was the one where Acidtyre and the team went down in flames at the end.

As stated there are no rules changes in Better BUG AI. However the AI does have some logic pertaining to mass drafting and whipping of units, especially if it starts going down the Domination victory path, which with Diety bonuses can make it seem like it's cheating.

 

[shyuhe]

Does better AI draft units???

 

[Yamps]

subscribed!

 

[obsolete]

Well damnit. Downloaded the better AI mod, then started up the game to run through it my own way. Then I'm hit by the painful news.... EPIC SPEED!!

No thanks!