Kael
Deity
I dont know, I havent really thought about it.
bhall's heaven
- Thread starter sirWOW
- Start date
I dont know, I havent really thought about it.
KillerClowns
Emperor
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,139
I should imagine it would be warm.
I think Bhall's heaven falls under the definition of "not yet fully imagined." I imagine it as sort of like Valhalla, with drinking, partying, fighting, et cetera.
EDIT: Ninja'd... and I guessed correctly about "not yet fully imagined." I'm keeping my version.
EDIT 2: The version of MC I keep in my head (rather like Perpentach does...) just reminded me that fighting is Camulos' sphere, not Bhall's, so I feel like clarifying lest the real MC attack me. The perpetual war in Camulos' vault would be a meaningless, perpetually changing slaughter, just in the name of slaughter, where each side thoroughly burns with hatred for the other. The fighting in my imagined Bhall's vault would be more like a sport than anything, with clear rules, and both sides getting together and laughing about it afterwards.
Giga-Gigan
Warlord
Oh... well alright then. At least I got my answer.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
I imagine that her vault would be one of great passion, filled entirely with flames of great heat and light. I tend to think that Bhall's fall fragmented her heaven but did not destroy it entirely, and that parts of it were saved by Lugus and Junil, who merged these regions with their own heavens. I tend to think that Lugus's heaven became the Empyrean ("in or on the fire") when it merged with a large chunk of Bhall's heaven, which may have previously gone my that name.
I imagine that many lesser souls, both angels and dead human souls that had not ascended into being angels yet, fell with her but that many also fled to other vaults, especially to Lugus and Junil.
We need to get Kael to reveal all he knows about every vault.
There are 2 gods who I have a hard time imagining having their own Vaults: Dagda and Ceridwen.
Actually, I don't have a problem with Dagda having a vault, but that vault would have to be Erebus. How can you have a plane of pure balance, or moderation taken to the extreme? It seems best to me to have his vault be the one made of equal parts of all the gods precepts, which is "The Prime Material Plane." I guess he could have other planes that operate just like Erebus does (actually, the fall from heaven history seems to imply that the gods made numerous worlds before Agares' fall, not just one apiece), but it wouldn't fit the normal pattern of a vault of a pure precept.
For Ceridwen, I can't really think of a plane made of "pure connections" either. Hers would be a disjoint domain consisting not of planes but of every connection and void between planes. Basically, the Ether. Of course, she may have many little pocket dimensions hidden in the ether for her own purposes, but none would be a real vault like those of their siblings.
I imagine that many lesser souls, both angels and dead human souls that had not ascended into being angels yet, fell with her but that many also fled to other vaults, especially to Lugus and Junil.
We need to get Kael to reveal all he knows about every vault.
There are 2 gods who I have a hard time imagining having their own Vaults: Dagda and Ceridwen.
Actually, I don't have a problem with Dagda having a vault, but that vault would have to be Erebus. How can you have a plane of pure balance, or moderation taken to the extreme? It seems best to me to have his vault be the one made of equal parts of all the gods precepts, which is "The Prime Material Plane." I guess he could have other planes that operate just like Erebus does (actually, the fall from heaven history seems to imply that the gods made numerous worlds before Agares' fall, not just one apiece), but it wouldn't fit the normal pattern of a vault of a pure precept.
For Ceridwen, I can't really think of a plane made of "pure connections" either. Hers would be a disjoint domain consisting not of planes but of every connection and void between planes. Basically, the Ether. Of course, she may have many little pocket dimensions hidden in the ether for her own purposes, but none would be a real vault like those of their siblings.
xienwolf
Deity
Bhall is fire, passion, rapid change.... so I guess a drunken Rave/Orgy with plenty of weapons "just in case"
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
I don't think a drunken orgy would make much sense for the goddess of righteous indignation. Her heaven was created before she fell, and while it was damaged in the process she has not yet been able to fashion a hell of her own to replace it. Whatever remains of her heaven is still a realm of holy fire.
wilboman
Hibernorse Frost Giant
Passion, hmmm... Visions just floated before my eyes of flamenco dancers and samba and loud latin music and bullfights and brief, gentlemanly battles over percieved insults. Kind of like stereotypical visions of Spain of old. But probably with jungle drums and techno thrown in.
Darksaber1
Secret Emperor
I tend to think of Ceridwen's vault as being something-like Xen, from Half-Life, a drifting mass rocks with downward gravity, with all the platforms cnnected by portals, as well as portals to other realms.
Avahz Darkwood
Emperor
Or Sigil in the Planescape DnD universe.
I guess since we're sharing our views of the vaults I'd pitch in. I'm not sure if every vault is material, or if some are abstract. If Bhall's was the realm of passion, then the extreme negative would be obsessive hate. Her corrupted vault would be like one big isolated cabin full of plotting paranoids, gritting teeth, and explosive violence.
I'm wondering about her evilness; does her fall mean she's evil in the Vote No On Compact sort of way? She's filled with despair, she goes down, does she change her mind? I guess the question is what will she do when she recovers, but I don't think any has an answer for that.
As for the other corrupted vaults, I find that each evil angel can represent one of the seven sins:
Aeron = Lust: Body mana, Vampires (commonly seen as metaphors for lust), Alexis
(kind of neglecting rage a bit though)
Agares = Pride: Refusal to give up his creations, the first to defy the One
Camulos = Wrath: Avatar of Wrath, Revenge is a good reason for war
Ceridwen = Gluttony: Magic tends to consume and addict, The cosmos are all-encompassing and stars lead to black holes (sorry if those seem like a stretch, it's a fairly strong association in my head)
Esus = Envy: :yoink:
Mammon = Greed: Just a wild guess, although Gluttony much better serves the Balseraphs
Mulcarn = Sloth: Stasis, etc.
Like I said, I don't know if they are totally material or abstract, but I think of them as actual vaults, as in places to keep stuff. Their essence is there and it's the influence they are having on Erebus. Erebus is like the middle of a giant Venn diagram, yeah? (I know that 4 circles is the limit for a Venn, but whatever.) Anyway, until we get more from Kael or unless someone defuncts something I've said, that's how things are in my head.
Edit: Whoops. The "Vote No On Compact" thing is way off. Should be something like the Powers of Creation Redistribution Initiative.
I'm wondering about her evilness; does her fall mean she's evil in the Vote No On Compact sort of way? She's filled with despair, she goes down, does she change her mind? I guess the question is what will she do when she recovers, but I don't think any has an answer for that.
As for the other corrupted vaults, I find that each evil angel can represent one of the seven sins:
Aeron = Lust: Body mana, Vampires (commonly seen as metaphors for lust), Alexis
(kind of neglecting rage a bit though)Agares = Pride: Refusal to give up his creations, the first to defy the One
Camulos = Wrath: Avatar of Wrath, Revenge is a good reason for war
Ceridwen = Gluttony: Magic tends to consume and addict, The cosmos are all-encompassing and stars lead to black holes (sorry if those seem like a stretch, it's a fairly strong association in my head)
Esus = Envy: :yoink:
Mammon = Greed: Just a wild guess, although Gluttony much better serves the Balseraphs
Mulcarn = Sloth: Stasis, etc.
Like I said, I don't know if they are totally material or abstract, but I think of them as actual vaults, as in places to keep stuff. Their essence is there and it's the influence they are having on Erebus. Erebus is like the middle of a giant Venn diagram, yeah? (I know that 4 circles is the limit for a Venn, but whatever.) Anyway, until we get more from Kael or unless someone defuncts something I've said, that's how things are in my head.
Edit: Whoops. The "Vote No On Compact" thing is way off. Should be something like the Powers of Creation Redistribution Initiative.
Immaculate
unerring
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 7,623
Ceridwen is definately not about gluttony.
She's got two major 'facets'.
the first is exemplified by her angel who is associated with pain. So perhaps this 'facet' would be physical pain.
the second facet is the one that lies opposite to nuentaselta (spelling) and which was best typified in her her seduction of kylorin. this 'facet' is about the relationships between people and how they can be negative, degrading, abjectifying, painful. So a domestic violence situation may fit into her sphere. So too would obsessive love (right kylorin?). Or a quest for power in some hierarchy.
I dont see gluttony in there anywhere.
My 2
She's got two major 'facets'.
the first is exemplified by her angel who is associated with pain. So perhaps this 'facet' would be physical pain.
the second facet is the one that lies opposite to nuentaselta (spelling) and which was best typified in her her seduction of kylorin. this 'facet' is about the relationships between people and how they can be negative, degrading, abjectifying, painful. So a domestic violence situation may fit into her sphere. So too would obsessive love (right kylorin?). Or a quest for power in some hierarchy.
I dont see gluttony in there anywhere.
My 2
Tyrs
King
I would think emotional pain is more up her sleeve, such as unhealthy broken relationships. Physical pain is much more a Camulos thing.
Immaculate
unerring
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 7,623
I thought so too, at least for the god, but what about her angel. Isn't she the angel of pain. If any sages want to jump in here and dispel my confusion, that would be great.
i.
i.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
The facts that Ceridwen is called the Queen of Pain and her Archangel Kanna is called the Mistress of Pain does not specifically mean that physical pain in in their domain. It may well be, but I am of the opinion that physical pain would fit Aeron best and that the pain they exemplify is the much more powerful emotional pain. It is of course possible that both types are in her precept, but the emphasis would be on the emotional The physical world of Erebus is in general but a manifestation of deeper psychological concepts.
In many ways Ceridwen seems to exemplify the Buddhist concept of Taṇhā, the thirst/desire/craving/addiction/unhealthy attachments that are the cause of all suffering (Dukkha), including but certainly not limited to physical pain. The fact that Taṇhā is thought to be responsible for reincarnation and that Ceridwen is the cause of Eve's reincarnation seems to support the idea that Taṇhā is her real precept. This concept seems rather close to what Aeron exemplifies too, but in a somewhat more esoteric way. A lot of gods precepts seem to overlap, with Aeron seeming very close to Camulos, Esus, Mammon, and Ceridwen. In fact, it is in Aeron's vault where demons are trained to channel the power of Ceridwen's realm. Aeron and Ceridwen really seem like the real leaders of the evil gods, with Agares being more of an inspirational figurehead who is too depressed to really do much personally. There is also a close connection between the Calabim and Sheaim, indicating that the spheres are quite close.
I should note that the association of Ceridwen with emotional pain, obsession, objectifying others, bad relationships, viewing yourself and others only through relationships (of all kinds, so as to include personal relations and a love of power), etc., is my idea and has never explicitly been confirmed by Kael or anyone on the team. It seems to be to the the logical extension of the sphere of dimensions and the ties that bind physical world together into the realm of the metaphysical, and it seems to fit with known lore, but that does not mean it was Kael's intention.
In many ways Ceridwen seems to exemplify the Buddhist concept of Taṇhā, the thirst/desire/craving/addiction/unhealthy attachments that are the cause of all suffering (Dukkha), including but certainly not limited to physical pain. The fact that Taṇhā is thought to be responsible for reincarnation and that Ceridwen is the cause of Eve's reincarnation seems to support the idea that Taṇhā is her real precept. This concept seems rather close to what Aeron exemplifies too, but in a somewhat more esoteric way. A lot of gods precepts seem to overlap, with Aeron seeming very close to Camulos, Esus, Mammon, and Ceridwen. In fact, it is in Aeron's vault where demons are trained to channel the power of Ceridwen's realm. Aeron and Ceridwen really seem like the real leaders of the evil gods, with Agares being more of an inspirational figurehead who is too depressed to really do much personally. There is also a close connection between the Calabim and Sheaim, indicating that the spheres are quite close.
I should note that the association of Ceridwen with emotional pain, obsession, objectifying others, bad relationships, viewing yourself and others only through relationships (of all kinds, so as to include personal relations and a love of power), etc., is my idea and has never explicitly been confirmed by Kael or anyone on the team. It seems to be to the the logical extension of the sphere of dimensions and the ties that bind physical world together into the realm of the metaphysical, and it seems to fit with known lore, but that does not mean it was Kael's intention.
kenkrajen
Prince
that part put in bold is really cool. it kind of touches on other eastern concepts such as 'being', also as being yourself, and 'no-mindedness', which seem to be the opposite of Ceridwen's tanha thing, not really sure how to spell that.
