Bombard range and terrain - screenshot analysis

[V. Soma]

See the attached pic:

Watch the orange "circle" line that shows the bombard range of the cannon:

I put red and green excl. marks to see the important parts:
so you cannot bombard the hill beyond the hill (red mark),
but you can bombard the plain beyond the hill (green mark)...

Hm, I think I can accept that
and I am glad to see the effect of terrain...

 

[Gre_Magus]

Interesting, although it looks like both hexes are "blocked" by the one hill in question. Could it be that the hex with the red mark is also blocked by the hex with hills and forest, while there is another plains hex between the cannon and the hex with the green mark?

 

[Ahriman]

Could it be that the hex with the red mark is also blocked by the hex with hills and forest

Yes, certainly; there is no "straight line" between the cannon and the red mark, and so presumably either tile being plains would allow the shot.

They said this earlier; you could fire over the head of another unit, but not over a hill or forest, because you couldn't see the enemy.

*edit*
I wonder if modern artillery (MRLS) will be different? I can see missiles firing over forests and hills with remote targeting data.

 

[Mercade]

It's a bit odd because the cannons themselves are also standing on top of a hill.
So if you're standing on a hill and you're firing over a hill, you should be able to hit the 3rd hill.
After all, I'd say it's easier to see/hit the 3rd hill than to hit something on a plain behind the 2nd hill.

 

[Dunkah]

It's possible that line of site is drawn from any point on the hex. If this is so you may be able to draw a straight line from the right-most point of the hex the cannon is in to the plain without crossing the hill.

But I would think los would go from center of hex to center of hex. Guess not...

 

[migkillertwo]

Yes, certainly; there is no "straight line" between the cannon and the red mark, and so presumably either tile being plains would allow the shot.

They said this earlier; you could fire over the head of another unit, but not over a hill or forest, because you couldn't see the enemy.

*edit*
I wonder if modern artillery (MRLS) will be different? I can see missiles firing over forests and hills with remote targeting data.

I think the Radio technology should negate this, along with a "spotter" promotion for units

 

[Dunkah]

Dedicated spotters would be way cool! But my guess is too complicated. Perhaps a spotter promo for the artillery itself to negate loss of los due to terrain. But that would only make sense circa WWI, WWII only so maybe too complicated for such a short range of time.

 

[Ahriman]

Oh, I didn't mean a dedicated spotter in any sense, I just meant that modern artillery might not have the same inability to hit things they can't see from their own tile.

The spotters would be assumed/abstracted.

Would be a neat thing to tie into Radio though too. Radios had huge impact on warfare, which has never shown up in Civ.

 

[PieceOfMind]

(I did have something I was going to write but it was obviously wrong.)

 

[Ahriman]

(I did have something I was going to write but it was obviously wrong.)

That doesn't stop most people ;-)

 

[Schuesseled]

See the attached pic:

Watch the orange "circle" line that shows the bombard range of the cannon:

I put red and green excl. marks to see the important parts:
so you cannot bombard the hill beyond the hill (red mark),
but you can bombard the plain beyond the hill (green mark)...

Hm, I think I can accept that
and I am glad to see the effect of terrain...

I think its more likely that you cannot bombard over a hill (red exclamation mark)

As for the green one, the game clearly uses hexes to work out these things not how it looks by eye. that green spot can be atttacked with a really odd bending shot going round the hill and across the river.

 

[treadwin]

I think the hex smoothing is deceptive here. The entire right half of the green marked hex is visable round the hill. The red marked hex is then behind the hill hex and to the left.

I think anyway; I cant see any other configuration of hexes that fits.

 

[ddd123]

Interesting, although it looks like both hexes are "blocked" by the one hill in question. Could it be that the hex with the red mark is also blocked by the hex with hills and forest, while there is another plains hex between the cannon and the hex with the green mark?

i agree with the starting observation but i just think the red sign is a "mountain" not a hill or something just higher than the minium required to bombard

 

[Ahriman]

but i just think the red sign is a "mountain" not a hill

The red ! is clearly a hill tile, not a mountain.

Its blocked because you cannot trace a 2-tile route to it without going through a hill, therefore it can't be targeted.
Whereas the green ! can have a route traced to it without going through a hill, by going NE then NW.

This seems pretty obvious.

 

[Schuesseled]

Yup that certainly is an Interesting Observation, Clearly, this game will be awesome, not only does positioning of troops matter so that you don't leave ranged units open to flanking attacks or indeed any units for that matter, as well as all the other combat scenarios the 1UPT will do for the game. The terrain is also not being ignored and being taken into account for the new ranged combat system. Its like the -1 terrain cost for moving over a hill but now included in trying to shoot over it. Assumeably they will have "upgrades" for units like in all previous civ's, and perhaps one of those will be Increased range for a ranged unit or indeed ignoring the "terrain cost" of range. I.e the Unit Upgrade of "Co-ordinated Strikes" no longer is one merely pointing and shooting in the general direction of the enemy with cannons but using sofisticated targetting methods.

 

[Shards]

I'd guess it uses similar LOS rules to Memoir 44 (http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/rules/). For the image shown, there is LOS to the non-Hill square along the boundary of the Hill and Plains tiles.

 

[ddd123]

The red ! is clearly a hill tile, not a mountain.

Its blocked because you cannot trace a 2-tile route to it without going through a hill, therefore it can't be targeted.
Whereas the green ! can have a route traced to it without going through a hill, by going NE then NW.

This seems pretty obvious.

it seems pretty stupid is the system allow a long shot just cause it passes in the intersection of exagons...

anyway the red is different from hill, you notice hills are... hilly, rounded on the top, pretty smooth
while the red tile is peaky

its not the mountain with snow very high but surely different from normal hills too

maybe there are 3-4 different heights?
dunno

 

[Ahriman]

Its the only way range makes any sense in a hex system. If the hex grid was added here this would be clearer.

Its clearly just a slightly different hill graphic. It looks slightly higher because the look of terrain depends on the adjacent tiles. That tile is surrounded by hills, so it looks slightly different from a hill that is surrounded by river or flatland.