Bombardment Resolution?!?!?

[IDSmoker]

It seems to me that Civ3 handles all types of bombardment in the following order/manner.

1. The number of possible target types is determined (territory improvements, units, city improvements, population, etc.) irregardless of what is actually there.
2. Which of the possible target types is being fired upon is determined.
3. Of the fired upon target type, which object (improvement, unit, etc.) is most prominent, if no objects of the selected target type are available, the bombardment fails!
4. Determine whether the most prominent member of the selected target type is actually hit.
   [/list=1]
   What this means, is if your bombardment targets a type of target that does not exist, your bombardment will fail!!!
   
   I think that Firaxis should change the bombardment order/manner to:
   1. Determine the number of available targets.
   2. Determine which available target is being fired upon.
   3. Determine whether the fired upon target has been hit.
      [/list=1]
      As it stands, a bombardment (of any nature), is far too likely to produce the infamous "Bombardment Fails" message.
      
      I'm sorry, but if a battleship (even a WW2-era model) spends a year or more firing full broadsides at a city filled with improvements, enemy military units, and people, something is going to go BOOM!!! <grin>
      
      As it stands (as of 1.21f), I have seen a battleship spend an entire 5-year turn bombarding a fully developed and defended metropolis, without doing any damage.
      
      This needs to be fixed for the next patch/PTW.

 

[Tassadar]

Here are the defensive value for building and citizen.

Original version= 4
1.16 patch version=8
1.17 patch version=16
1.21 patch version=16

Those value are from editor under general setting, i was very when i use patch 1.17 all my bombardement fail most of the time, catapult and cannon are useless.

I recommand to lower those valu back to 8. 16 is way to high. Even bomber miss more then 60 % of the time.

 

[IDSmoker]

Changing the defensive values is one possible solution.

My question is, Is the problem in the defensive values, or in the fundamental way that bombarment is resolved?

If a city has 4 improvements and 4 defending units, how often are you getting the "Bombardment Fails" message? If it is more than 50% of the time then I think it is the method that is at fault... not the values.

 

[IDSmoker]

I also believe that the list of available city improvement targets should be changed.

Since Firaxis has artificially decreed that all culture-generating buildings will be destroyed in newly-conquered cities, why can't economic buildings be made exempt from bombardment?

 

[Tassadar]

i dont agree with poeple that want to preserve some AI building after bombardement. When you choose to bomb a city it mean you want to weaken defense and destroy infrastructure, that s the real purpose.
Imagine you can say, i am so happy my bombardement miss it will give me free structure.
With 8 as a value for def bonus its ok you will hit often, i like that.

 

[Zouave]

Originally posted by IDSmoker
I also believe that the list of available city improvement targets should be changed.

Since Firaxis has artificially decreed that all culture-generating buildings will be destroyed in newly-conquered cities, why can't economic buildings be made exempt from bombardment?

Because Soren has an obsessive fixation on Culture. And it's specious.

I long ago Edited UP the bombardment strengths of these units.

Firaxis proved it doesn't know what it's doing when it marketed a game that would not permit bombers to sink warships - finally patched after months of complaints.

 

[caramba]

Originally posted by Tassadar
Here are the defensive value for building and citizen.

Original version= 4
1.16 patch version=8
1.17 patch version=16
1.21 patch version=16

Those value are from editor under general setting, i was very when i use patch 1.17 all my bombardement fail most of the time, catapult and cannon are useless.

I recommand to lower those valu back to 8. 16 is way to high. Even bomber miss more then 60 % of the time.

How do I change this value??

Thanks!

 

[IDSmoker]

Originally posted by Zouave

I long ago Edited UP the bombardment strengths of these units.

This is the part of bombardment resolution that I'm a little unclear about.

If I edit UP the bombardment defense of economic buildings and edit DOWN of culture buildings (is it possible to change the defense of individual building types?) and citizens, will my bombardments succeed more often, less often, or the same? If the game picks an individual building before finally resolving things, then the success rate will probably stay about the same.

The thing I really object to is having to go through the editor to correct this problem in the first place! <grin>

 

[IDSmoker]

No matter how I increase the bombardment strength of attack units, or the bombardment defense of improvements (increasing the defense of those few improvements that are captureable)... it still seems that:

• bombardments will fail more often than they succeed
• successful bombardments against cities/metropolises will still destroy improvements more often than citizens or defending units.
• successful bombardments against cities/metropolises will still destroy citizens more often than damaging defending units!!!

The 1.29 patch still offers no improvement to Civ3's bombardment system. There is a fundamental flaw in the way that bombardment is resolved. It is far too difficult to reduce the strength of a city or metropolis's defenders. If modern era weapon systems are able to target individual windows, why can't my Radar Artillery target the defending Mechanized Infantry?

Anyone wanna bet that PTW will ignore this issue as well?

 

[Myartar]

I agree with the problem of not being able to target with Radar artillery, I don't think you should be able to w/ any of the other artillery pieces.
My beef w/ bombard ment is the lack of a group bombard. I think this is coming w/ PTW, but i want this one NOW. In Industral age war where it's bacially "bombard, bombard, bombard, charge!" When you have huge stacks of 60+ artillery, it takes forever to fire off every single piece of artillery!!

 

[IDSmoker]

Originally posted by Myartar
When you have huge stacks of 60+ artillery, it takes forever to fire off every single piece of artillery!!

My gripe is that you shouldn't need a 60+ stack of artillery to reduce the defenders of a metropolis before mounting an assault.

 

[Mavtse]

in my recent game without cheating(by me) at wallord level, i used about 20 arty to bombard a city for at least 3 turns before i send in infantry and tanks.
More than 20 arty is not cost effective i think. War is expensive and hard especially when AI bully u on probability, diplomacy and research speed. (My tanks get busted by Rifleman! )

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by caramba


How do I change this value??

Thanks!

Read the editor help. you have too go into civ 3 editor, then disable standard setting, then edit those setting, under general setting you will find defensive bonus for bulding and citizen.

I dont know about 1.29 1 am still using 1.16 and bombardement work great.

 

[Herr Falle]

I wish you could choose your target eg you could target the improvements even if there is a unit at full health in the tile. sometimes that would be more preferable than just bombarding the units.