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Boredom with CIV5 demystified

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Bibor, Nov 30, 2010.

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  1. bitula

    bitula Prince

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    To be sincere, I've never read such a pure nonsense on civfanatics forums. And it seems that the OP is serious about this... I suspect, that he/she never even played Civ1 for more than 2 minutes.
     
  2. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    You know the thing I enjoyed most in Civ1? How you could reduce an AI to one city, surround its borders with units and keep it that way indefinitely. Sort of an indian reservation. Proof enough?
     
  3. bitula

    bitula Prince

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    If you manage to amass 8 units so early and the AI has not built additional cities till then and no units to backstab you, then you deserve this win. However if you are anyway this much overpowered so early it makes more sense just to run down that city. So what you say makes no sense at all, I bet you can exploit Civ4 as well at certain levels and game settings, no game is apriori perfect. Furthermore Sid is a very proficient programmer. Try to create such a complex game with or without 3D graphics. You will never succeed even with modern "plug-and-play" programming languages.
     
  4. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Uh, you're taking this too seriously. One-city leftover AIs were not a sign of weak design. These could happen only late in game (with high tech superiority) so I obviously played for more than 2 minutes. Right? :)

    Whatever money Sid made from making CIV1 - he earned it.

    It is really funny how people start screaming when I say CIV1 was bad. Please, install WinUAE. Install CIV1. And then install another strategy game from that period. Compare. Emotional, sentimental values cannot be measured and I do not question them.

    How about Deuteros? Why don't you try it and compare with Civ1 in terms of addictiveness, complexity and gameplay?
     
  5. bitula

    bitula Prince

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    Unless you are lying, sure, but so what? That only tells that you did not like the game. But your generalizations based on your particular experiences are total out of place.
     
  6. troytheface

    troytheface Deity

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    lol

    funny post op

    its akin to saying "alfred hitcock did not work the camera"

    although now that i think about it i bet those early directors worked the camera

    never played super mario brothers but i did play pong and that submarine arcade game where you held a periscope and shot at ships

    - a couple games where i guess the reward was playing until you have to eat or run out of quarters

    and to this day i do not know who made them but i would assume they were like pretty smart or something
     

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  7. Darkpriest667

    Darkpriest667 Chieftain

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    The game stinks compared to the previous 2 (civ 3 and 4 were both better civ 2 was more revolutionary) and Im sorry I feel like I got robbed out of my money. I saw the DLC and laughed and so did my friends. and I quote from my friend Jeffrey "Figures they would release DLC before they fix the obvious flaws in the entire system of the game"

    This game stinks. I played 30 hours (which is test time imho) and haven't touched it since except to make sure the updates (the few there have been) didn't crash the game. Other than that I have no interest in it. I can still go back to Civ 4 and without even thinking drone on 15 hours of "just one more turn" I don't get that feeling with Civ 5 at all and I feel like its a huge disappointment.
     
  8. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    So... I have to apologize because of my extensive knowledge in computer games? I have to look down on myself because I played hundreds of computer games since 1990? I have to accept that my conclusions are wrong, even if they are backed by vast experience, experimentation and conclusions? Just because someone says "you're wrong and that's that"? Sorry, but I won't do it.
     
  9. bitula

    bitula Prince

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    No, no... You don't have to. But I also have the right to disagree and call your generic-prophetic conclusions (regarding Sid and Civ1) a pure nonsense. Have a nice day :lol:
     
  10. freeluos

    freeluos Chieftain

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    Great OP. However I never cared much for sentimental Sid feelings and for his games. Call to power is better then any of "sids" games still :p . Civ IV gets close but SOD's are killing. They where allready taken care of in 1999. CIV V, well I did not play it as well as CIV I (but played CIV II and now recently IV).

    But there are many recent games that do have in depth gameplay and follow "your" rules.
    Paradox for example do create quite complex games. And will probably continue to do so.

    I will see CIV V as an experiment. Some like it some do not. But for sure is that the next CIV should have another concept for there is nothing to strip anymore. (OK, AI breaking 1UPT -> probably by removing combat entirely -> reward is smiling leader or else angry looking leader).

    Every "next" civ games that are lacking concepts (religion, espionage, corporations, bureaucracy (this is new (invented in 1999) -> using lawyers to wreak on corporations), slavers to steal population from your neighbors), I will call it dumbed down and not worth to buy. CIV IV complete came pretty cheap (<10usd) so I had to try "Sids" latest try.

    And actualy I like it. It's not the all out game I should want it be but at the moment it is the best "Sids" game yet.

    Conclusion:
    I am not a fan. I am a customer. I buy what suits me no matter if its "Sids" or not.
    There are enough good fish to catch and there are still companies that treat the customer as a smart person.
     
  11. Vulcans

    Vulcans Prince

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    I agree, civ5 is somewhat of a letdown.... though a lot of the problems such as balance can be addressed by the modding community.

    i dont see CIV as a game in itself, but an engine for people to make their own games.

    For example: fall from heaven, which was phenominally deeper and more interesting than civ4, to the extent that i baught BTS and have only played a single BTS game in my life, as FFH was so much better.

    just wait till the modding community re-makes Civ5, with whatever mod they come up with. all these balance issues, linear level of the game etc can all be addressed by re-making the game from scratch using the civ engine and making some awsome mod.

    not many games open themselves up to modding the way that civ does, and for that i give hats off. for i dont expect civ5 to beocome a great game, though with a dedicated modding community like this striving at an interesting multi-leveled balanced strategy game, i have high hopes for some great mods, which will make this civ5 engine shine.
     
  12. moscaverde

    moscaverde Prince

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    As a player that don't play much with mods (nor do I want) I must agree with the OP in many topics. Although I don't know if the aspects he listed (like reward for playing well etc) takes in consideration the value of the journey of the game, not just the win/lose aspects.

    Also, I liked the comparisson of Sid with George Lucas, very fitting.
     
  13. sketch162000

    sketch162000 Warlord

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    :eek:
     
  14. P-Zombie

    P-Zombie Chieftain

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    Me either. :p

    My first console was an Atari 2600, but instead of getting a Nintendo, I got into playing games on our first home computer, an Apple IIc. I spent many hours on the original Might and Magic, Wizardry, and a diplomacy game called Balance of Power. I didn't get into another console game until Final Fantasy, but I still never played any of the Mario Brothers games. Closest I got to that kind of game was Sonic the Hedgehog (which was fun, so maybe I would've liked Mario if I'd ever tried it).


    Edit: I also never played Civ1, so I can't comment directly on whether or not it was a good game. But the accolades for it go way beyond simple nostalgia. The OP is entitled to his opinion though. The only thing I object to is when the OP reaches too far with his claims, like calling Sid nothing more than a "known" developer. I agree with bitula on that...trying to say that Civ1 wasn't a huge hit and a fun game for masses of people, or that Sid isn't a legend in the gaming industry, is just nonsense.
     
  15. LaRate

    LaRate Chieftain

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    I kinda agree with the OP except for the Civ1-statement since I really loved that game (although it crashed on me quite a lot). The real genius was not strategic depth but rather the freedom of development during the game that caught me (I also was a big fan of Simcity). I loved Civ2, 3 and 4 even more when they came out. Each installment of the series managed to make me completely forget about the respective predecessor.

    Civ5 doesn't, however. It completely fails to inspire me to play it. I bought it on release and haven't played a complete game yet, so I have neither lost nor won a single game. I just don't have the feeling I will explore something exciting.

    And one big problem of Civ5 is that it is outdated feature-wise. How can a company release a game in 2010 with such crippled multiplayer functionality? Even Civ4 is way better at multiplayer. How can a company only exploit the corporate benefits of an account-based system like steam (no second hand market, easy marketable DLC) without providing some player benefits (matchmaking, ladders etc.)?

    In my frustration over Civ5 I bought Starcraft 2, although I'm actually not the biggest RTS-fan - but wow, this thing is compelling. I mean, you even have to be permanently online to be able to play it - but you don't see many people b!tching about that in the fora because the game is just darn perfect. It's the complete opposite of Civ5 - they stuck to the original core game concept, but made a really modern game with it. And they managed to deliver both stunning single player (great campaign, motivating challenges) and multi player (ladder, matchmaking).
     
  16. JLoZeppeli

    JLoZeppeli Prince

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    To be fair, i don't remember Sid involving in a game by the times o Civ I and Pirates! And a partial involvement in the game Railroad tycoon....

    It's true that they were good games, but the great success of the franchise was due Civilization II...

    But he was a first pioneer like Crammond and others.... So he deserves is success, as he deserves to be called a businessman now (to be honest, he was so by the times of Pirates! Gold....)
     
  17. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Yes, Sid Meier became a legend, but not so much for his ability as a visionary and programmer but because he slapped his name on every product he made or haven't really made but slapped his name there anyway.

    This is rather interesting, because compared to works of John Carmack (Wolfenstein) or Westwood (Dune II) or David Braben (Elite, Frontier), not many computer game developers (if any) tried to mimick Sid Meier's game concepts. Maybe its because for every possible square-tile strategy game Sid screamed "I pantented that at US office, biach!" or maybe because these concepts were unappealing due to inherent flaws in design.

    Sid Meier's designs are a technological and conceptual dead-ends, and the geniuses responsible stretching it beyond civilization are few (Reynolds + ?). But even they turned away from this concept and turned to Westwood or some other founding father for further inspiration.

    There's only really one very narrow genre in which concepts seeded by Sid Meier work - Civilization X. Stuff like expanding borders, advanced diplomacy (UN), unit workshop, terrain altitude, sattelites that affect all cities, social policies, units that can become citizens... That's not really Sid. If you however treat square-tiles and cities that produce stuff as something world-changing then by all means, continue the praise.

    In reality, the only thing that Sid did was to enable Reynolds. With Civilization V there's really nothing left from the original Civ, except for the comeback of the ******** diplomacy. Even the squares are gone and the civilopedia is worse than ever. So much for world-changing gaming concepts that stood the test of time. Brought to you by Sid Meier.

    You don't have to go back that much in time, just look at Civ IV: Colonization and you are guaranteed to see that people now working at Firaxis have no clue why Reynolds made the game the way he did. And all they had to do was to copy-paste the original design into a new interface.
     
  18. Welnic

    Welnic Emperor

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    Thats where I quit reading the post and the rest of the thread.
     
  19. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    That sentence is there by design. If you can't get past it, you're not really ready to hear what I had to say. I really dislike people who can't enter a discussion without fanaticism talking most of the talk.
     
  20. cf_nz

    cf_nz Prince

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    So by taking shots at Sid Meier, Civ I and Jon Shafer within several sentences you were tying to customise your audience? Interesting, I wondered what relevance it had to the rest of your post.
     
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