BOTM 01 First Spoiler

Yeh, i found it tough to finish off the english. Only managed it by 1100ad after getting macemen before they got longbowmen. I certainly could have taken them out earlier if had went all out but it wasn't economically viable at the time. What I did do, which seemed just as effect was to very quickly get a few chariots and block and pillage london at the very beginning, being at war for a good thousand years. This allowed me to expand into the floodplains and make it easier to take them out later in the game.

I'm going the space victory route and i'm sure i'll win but certainly not with a crazy score. My ability is roughly equal to monarch where i've won 2 and lost 3. At prince i've won my past 7 games in a row and I can't see myself lose again unless in extreme circumstances.

Dave
 
I noticed only in this game that if you revolt during a Golden Age there's no anarchy: is a new BtS feature, or i missed it for 2 years?
 
I didn't keep notes, so this is just from memory.

I settled i place, built another scout to see if there were any goodie huts (there weren't :( ) then a worker and warier, workboat, settler, workboat. One workboat went off to explore, although in hindsite, that wasn't a good decision. There's no real reason to meet other AIs early on if you can't trade.

I was trying to get the great wall to get some early espionage points, but failed to do so. So, I got an oracle slingshot to mettle casing. I then built an early forge and Collosos for a maritime based economy.

When I saw copper close to Winston I settled my 2nd city there. I never got the production going quick enough for an axe rush against protective archers though. city #3 went in the flood plains, and then a few more dotted around to pick up resources. As there was no trading I really focused on cottages and soon built a commanding tech leed. I eventually vasailsed Winston with Maces and phants after taking York London and Nottingham, leaving Winston with two crap cities.

I'm going cultural, but I'm not sure how I'll run a GP farm when the GPPs will be competing with the GPPs from wonders and in my main cultural cities. Oh well.

We Circumnavigated the world with work boats quite early too.
 
@BLubmuz-the no anarchy for revolts in a GA is a new BtS feature.
 
I'm a newbie who has only playyed a couple of prior games. I tried Adventurer for my first GOTM. The extra worker made early decisions much easier. I found Churchill in 3500 and decided not to try and attack as he was protective. I started expanding as quickly as possible until my research spending dropped to 60 percent. I was able to build Oracle and got Metal Casting to build early Forges. I was also able to found Judaism and was able to stay at peace with everyone, though my religion made making friends difficult. I'm still not too sure of my future strategy. Since I am such a newbie I'm playing it pretty safe. All is well so far. I learned a lot from reading this thread (as in Autosaving). We'll see how it goes...
 
@Harbourboy,
@Bob_the_Silent,

How many units do you attack with?

My rule of thumb is that cities on hills take 2.5 axes / archer i.e. 1.5 axes will die for each archer. Cities on plains take 1.5 axes / archer i.e 0.5 axes will die for each archer. Then you want one or two extra for the bad-luck-factor + 1 archer for defense against counterattack.

It is critical that you capture the city on the first attempt.

It is also critical that you station the units outside the border, then declare and move towards the city at once. As soon as you are inside the border, you can't wait for reinforcements. If you can't/don't want to continue, either peace for tech/gold or sign cease fire.

And you need to understand how combat works:
When you attack with combat promotion, that % is added to your strength. Then all other modifiers are added/subtracted for the defender. If you have City Raider, then the % is removed from the defender. Likewise for Cover. Combat promotion for an axe will thus add 0.5 strength, while Cover will remove 0.75 from the archer (25% of 3). When all modifiers are included, the battle begins. Take a look at the combat report tab to learn all the details. After a while you will get a feeling for how much 40% culture affects an assault compared to 20% culture etc.
 
I’m starting this spoiler before I start the actual game. I am playing a single practice game to get feel for BtS and the settings. The first thing I noticed with these settings is that technologies will be hard to come by over the course of the game. Given the 6 week schedule until the submissions are closed, it seems like a fine time to undertake the looooong slog to a spaceship victory. To speed the process as much as possible, I’m planning to steal as much as I can. I’m also going to try to gather as many of the free Great People as I can, and also try to build some key wonders. Early targets are Great Wall (necessity), Oracle, Mausoleum of ??, Great Library, and theTaj Majal. Bonus wonders might be Great Lighthouse and Colossus if I have enough coastal cities to make them worth while. I aim to be the first to Liberalism, Economics, etc….anything to boost research and cash and great people. Espionage will be a key factor, I plan on founding Confucianism so I get a jump on CH’s and first to Constitution for Jails. Most all cities will get all 4 espionage buildings sooner or later. Then it’s just a matter of how fast can I get to the end of the tech tree. No unnecessary wars, REXing to start, cottage like crazy, hopefully launch by 1900! I’m also going to try and limit civics and religion changes to my golden ages, as there is no anarchy in Bts, and I plan on using a few GA’s after getting the Mausoleum for the 50% bonus there. 4 GA’s @ 15 turns apiece will be about 12% of the total turns played if I win before 1900!

So how did it go? Well I started with a misclick, I accidentally moved my settler instead of my scout to the hill S. Seeing no more food, I settled T2 in the original location. I started building a worker, set research to fishing, and started a quick scouting of the opening area. I met Churchill on T6, so I new there would be at least 1 espionage target on my starting continent. This was a wonder and cottage playground. I founded Gondar on the coast NW of Aksum. It would build a few wonders early in the game when I had forests to chop. Later it would end up cottaged like my entire empire. Lalibela was founded NE of Aksum to grab the marble, some of the flood plains and some more ivory IIRC. I mostly needed the Marble for the wonders. I was not too worried about Churchills development early, in fact I wanted him to do some research for me. The Great Wall was very important to my early strategy, so I chopped and pop rushed to ensure completion which I got on T83! I did not build any other wonders in Aksum for a while because I wanted to be sure my first great person was a spy, which he was, Foshaug the Deceiver (Great Spy) born in Aksum.

I took Code of Laws with The Oracle and founded Confucianism.

When I got this message, Turn 167/750 (95 BC) [21-Dec-2007 12:58:03]
Civics Change: Churchill(England) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule', I knew Winston was on his way to Feudalism, so I started to prep for the upcoming invasion, as his usefulness was going to be wearing thin over the next 500 years or so.

At 505AD, the Ethiopian empire is developing well. We have many great works which are really driving the great person generation bus. We are preparing for the upcoming invasion of Curchill, but not before we steal a few more techs.

Some of the facts,
Spoiler :
Research order: Fishing>AH>BW>Wheel>Masonry (for Great Wall)>Pottery>Writing>Myst>Poly>Priest (for Oracle)>Math (for Chopping bonus)>CoL (from Oracle)>Ag>Metal Casting>Sailing>Calendar>Alphabet>Aesthetics> Literature>Music (for GA to start first golden age)>IW and Monarchy were stolen on T186>Civil Service>Construction stolen T198>Monotheism>HBR stolen T206> and researching Machinery (T210,550AD), to provide Maces for the upcoming invasion of Churchill.

More facts,
Spoiler :
Build Orders,
Aksum order,
Worker>WB>warrior>warrior>settler>WB (for Gondar NW)>warrior>start Great Wall T67, finish on T83>settler(pop rushed T88)>granary>library T100

Gondar order, Founded T60
Worker>granary>library>Temple of Artemis

Lalibela order, Founded T91
The Oracle>granary>library>

Stolen techs, so far!
Spoiler :
Techs Stolen
From Winston
Monarchy T186
Iron Working T186
Construction T198
Horseback Riding T206
Archery T209

And wonders built pre 500AD,
Spoiler :

In Aksum:
Turn 83/750 (1925 BC) [21-Dec-2007 11:59:16]
Aksum finishes: The Great Wall
Turn 195/750 (325 AD) [21-Dec-2007 14:32:41]
Aksum finishes: The Statue of Zeus
Turn 205/750 (475 AD) [21-Dec-2007 15:06:14]
Aksum finishes: The Parthenon

In Gondar:
Turn 141/750 (485 BC) [21-Dec-2007 12:28:46]
Gondar finishes: The Temple of Artemis
Turn 166/750 (110 BC) [21-Dec-2007 12:57:10]
Gondar finishes: The Colossus
Turn 196/750 (340 AD) [21-Dec-2007 14:34:35]
Gondar finishes: The Great Library

In Lalibela:
Turn 119/750 (1025 BC) [21-Dec-2007 12:14:20]
Lalibela finishes: The Oracle
Turn 173/750 (5 BC) [21-Dec-2007 13:06:25]
Lalibela finishes: Mausoleum of Maussollos

In Addis Ababa:
Turn 203/750 (445 AD) [21-Dec-2007 15:03:09]
Addis Ababa finishes: The Sistine Chapel


I have lost track of my saves, if I can find them, I'll edit in some screen shots.
 
A pretty mundane performance so far on my part… I just got back from Christmas vacation, and downloaded the save this morning, and played through to 295AD in one session. While I have toyed around a bit since getting BTS a few months ago, I have yet to actually complete a game with the expansion, so I am not expecting anything too special from myself. That being said, the Prince level AI with no tech trading has proven to be completely inept at getting of the ground, such that pretty much any human strategy is going to produce a great (likely winning) position by 500 AD.

I started out with the rather bonehead decision of settling 1S of the starting location. I wanted the extra hammer, and completely overlooked (and forgot it being discussed in the pre-game thread) that the elephants also provide that, and are on a better (Much better, in hindsight, given the horses). I go with worker first and AH for a tech.

I start exploring the continent, and it quickly becomes apparent that I have ample room to grow and some nice land in my surroundings. I do meet Churchy as his warrior finds me in 3300, but don’t actually find his homeland until quite a bit later. I send out an exploring WB in 3000, and he finds Stalin shortly thereafter. There same boat runes into Darius, Justin, and Boudica in 1550, 1450, and 1250, and finally completes the picture by meeting the last AI in 485 BC. It also, with the help of a partner built quite a bit later, managed to circumnavigate in 335 BC.

While the fisherman where exploring, I was busy building up the homeland:

City 2: 2500, to grab the corn, sheep, marble, elephant spot.
City 3: 2100, taking gold + fish + pig, but stupidly overlooking the corn!
City 4: 1175, grabbing copper + corn + sheep + 2 elephants.
City 5: 1000, for fish + deer + silver
City 6: 750, On the dye, to also get gem and silk.
City 7: A bit south of the die… Stalin takes a city from the barbs, and is guarding it with only a half-dead sword. I declare and take it. He agrees to peace 3 turns later!!! (I though there was a 10 turn minimum??)
Then, in 125 BC, with cats in place, I declare on Churchy, and by 205 AD he is no more… I take London, and 4 other cities in the process.

Just before the end of the session, I adopt bureaucracy, and courthouse are coming on-line across the land, so I am ready to take the war to another front. Stalin is next, and I have started shipping troops over to the Dye city as a jumping off spot for that war.

At 295 AD, I sit in first place in all demographic indicators including land, pop, and power. I assume I am top in techs as well… With no tech trading, and only enough spy points to see two opponents, I cant be sure, but judging from the troops they are fielding in their cities, I believe that everyone else is still around mathematics on the tree.

I currently have 11 cities, and 15% of the land. I will take out Stalin next, and see where we go from there. Domination seems likely, assuming I can keep the economy healthy enough to pay the maintenance.
 
My spoiler coming soon.

I had 2 great food sites for running specialists, 2 ok ones that would hopefully be able to help out a little, and my capital would build every GA producing wonder it could, besides the National Epic, so it could also produce GAs without a huge food supply.

You got the CS slingshot and you are running Bureacracy. You choose to put your NE in your capital. I think that's a bad combination. Either you work tiles, using Bureaucracy and wasting NE or you hire artists, using NE and wasting Bureaucracy.
Just a little detail I would like to discuss in a very very promising cultural game.:goodjob:

I assume I am top in techs as well… With no tech trading, and only enough spy points to see two opponents, I cant be sure, but judging from the troops they are fielding in their cities, I believe that everyone else is still around mathematics on the tree.

Press F4-Techs. You can't trade, but you can see what they are after.
 
Assuming F4 is the foreign advisor screen, it just tells me that tech trading is not allowed. This might be because I have yet to research alphabet...
 
Assuming F4 is the foreign advisor screen, it just tells me that tech trading is not allowed. This might be because I have yet to research alphabet...

Yes, sorry, that's it.
 
You got the CS slingshot and you are running Bureacracy. You choose to put your NE in your capital. I think that's a bad combination. Either you work tiles, using Bureaucracy and wasting NE or you hire artists, using NE and wasting Bureaucracy.
Just a little detail I would like to discuss in a very very promising cultural game.:goodjob:

Just to clarify, my wording wasn't real clear, I built all the GA wonders I could in the capital EXCEPT the NE. I built that in London. I did occassionally run artists in the capital though when it would be working a poor tile or I didn't have anything needing built.
 
Just to clarify, my wording wasn't real clear, I built all the GA wonders I could in the capital EXCEPT the NE. I built that in London. I did occassionally run artists in the capital though when it would be working a poor tile or I didn't have anything needing built.

Ahhh!
I can't wait for your second spoiler, then!
 
jesusin, challenger. Goal: Fastest domination.

I started this game without test games and with only 2 previous finished BTS games. It took me very long, since I was constantly consulting the Civilopedia.

*Early turns:

With no resources on the sea I decided to move inland. After all, I could always come back having lost only 1 turn. Then I took risks and continued forward. Settled on the 3rd turn with river, corn, sheep and marble. Marble without a good source of income is not good for a CS slingshot.
Research Agri-AH-ining to leverage my tiles.
Production: Worker-warrior-settler
Worker actions: connect corn, connect pigs, mine the marble (yes, mine).

*Churchill:

He was found early, worker stolen in t50, got a Golden Age because of it, his wandering warrior delayed my 2nd city settling by 4 turns, then headed for my capital, so I had to offer him my Scout to distract him. I CF Churchill instead of peace. That way, he would never forget his loses. I kept on dowing,stealing workers and signing CF again. It felt almost like cheating.

So he was always OCC and had no improved tiles. I killed him with Cats around 500BC. without elephants as I had planned, since they now require HBR too! He died honourably, whipping Archers to pop1, as a human would have done. Those archers were strong!!!

*Settling my lands:

2nd city, t58, North, sheep, 3ivory, oasis.
3rd city, t70, further N, copper, corn, sheep, silver.
4th city, t76, W, thought as a GPFarm, fish, corn, pig, gold, on the coast.
5th from barbs
6th on S island, on sugar, to get it and dyes and horses. I opened WB for the first time to be sure that settling on sugar would give me 3 food.

Where is the catch? No seaside city able to produce galleys. Since I could go nowhere, my units were useless and I stopped building them to protect my economy.

*Random events:

They were not particularly disrupting in my game, but they were far too many. Every 5 turns something would happen. I don't like free GAs, they can easily decide the fastest cultural winner. In my game I didn't like having a slave revolt in my capital, where I had no whipping unhappiness at all!

*Great People:

I farmed 3 GS, for an Academy in 700BC and for lightbulbing Astronomy in 400AD.
I received a GG. What do you do with it? I used him as instructor in my capital, not very effective.

*WW:
None. I obsoleted the Colossus with astronomy 1 turn before it was built :(

*Colonies:

When I realised everything was the same landmass, I would have liked to set a colony and then new productive cities would be kept while new useless cities would be gifted to the colony. I didn't know I needed Feudalism for that.

*Spys:

What's that?

*Revolutions:
Just once to slavery. By the way, do you know that...?: if you revolt after a settler has settled you will lose your whole empire productivity for 1 turn; that if you revolt while the settler is being produced it will be the same because you will be settling the city 1 turn later; but that if you revolt while the settler is on his way you won't lose any turn of productivity from his future city.

*Evolution:

Phase 1- Keep Churchill in the dark ages while I settle 4 good cities.
Phase 2- Beeline to Construction, kill Churchill, realise I have no ships enough.
Phase 3- Stop building units, concentrate on growth, let the builder inside me enjoy. Beeline Astronomy.
At 500AD I have circumnavigated, I have Astronomy and CS, but I don't know Mysticism. I have just attacked Stalin, without enough forces, from the sea, without too much planning except "I will disconnect his metals fist". No wonder it's being a disaster.

1000BC stats: 5cities, 28pop. fhg=69,36,87. 58sustainable bpt. 7Wor, 7Axe,6War, WB. 4Gra,4Lib, 3Barr. 16cpt, 12GPPpt. 0WW,0NW,0GPP. 12techs: maths,BW,sail,Mason. 3/8 cottages worked. 0civs killed.

1AD stats: 12cities, 56pop. fhg=174,51,163. 122sust bpt. 9Wor,21Cat/ele,5gall. All resources but Stone. 57cpt, 6GPPpt. 0WW,0NW,2GP. 19techs: all post maths,IW, MC, CoL, no Myst. 18/26 cottages. 1 civs killed.
 
By the way, do you know that...?: if you revolt after a settler has settled you will lose your whole empire productivity for 1 turn; that if you revolt while the settler is being produced it will be the same because you will be settling the city 1 turn later; but that if you revolt while the settler is on his way you won't lose any turn of productivity from his future city.
Yeah. Not just settler, but also worker, or even warrior. I almost always delay switching to slavery if I have a unit nearly built & no size 2 pop to whip anyway. Since it is common for me to start a worker and go for BW immediately (esp if I have mining), this is often. On the other hand, if my worker is improving a tile I want to work in the early turns, I try to do rev while worker is still building improvement (less overall loss of production doing it then).

I also like to settle later cities the same turn I do revolts, if convenient -- gives you a chance to get a head start on improving tiles (which you couldn't until you have the city radius) while not paying maintenance for 1-2 turns on the unimproved (unproductive) city. It's a little thing, but why not.

Of course in BTS the best thing to do is plan to do revolutions during golden ages. In this game, I did almost all my later changes during an Age (so no anarchy). Golden Ages are a lot more important now (hardly ever did them before, except the Taj Mahal freebie). Getting the Zeus thing or whatever it's called that increases # of turns 50% also tips the scales.
 
Challenger save, going for fastest domination (Obormot Gauntlet / Erkon Challenge).

My plan was in 3 phases.

Phase 1:
- scout the starting continent to find any other AI
- axe rush any starting AI if present
- REX my starting area with about 60% cities cottaged, 40% unit producing, plus...
- 1 GP city for lightbulbing Mathematics; then 2nd GP to start a golden age

Phase 2 would be to carry out in parallel:
- galley / sword conquest of the AI (ideally capture stonehenge & great wall)
- selective settling of distant (resource rich) city sites
- build Forbidden Palace on the largest overseas continent (to reduce maitenance during phase 3)

Phase 3
- settler spam (20-30 settlers?) and send to gaps in land
- 2 turns before victory, sign 10-turns peace with AI and mass settle (cash defecit not an issue here - GW prevents barb attacks; peace treaties prevent AI attacks)
- run caste system with 1 artist in each new city; = 4 culture + 2 creative trait + 1 stele + 25% from stele = 8 culture per turn
- after 2 turns, settler spam cities pop borders to exceed domination land limit

Went more or less as planned. I settled on the ivory, REX'd for a while, DOW'd on Churchill immediately and kept him alive long enough to steal 2 workers, then finished him off with axes. Continued cottaging / settling the starting continent while exploring the map and taking a couple of cities from the Khmer, Persians and Byzantines.

I'm yet to finish a BtS game, having started a couple of practise games a few months back when I bought it. However, I was worried about increased overseas maintenance costs, so focused much more on early cottaging than Obormot, Erkon etc.

Also I didn't explore much with WBs early on. I assumed from the map settings and generating a few maps in WB beforehand, that galley exploration of the world was fairly certain. I ploughed the resources into my early REXing / rushing instead.

Here's how my 1000BC stats compare to the other gauntlet players who have posted here:

player . . cities+ .pop GNP prod food wrkrs WB troops bldgs wonders
. . . . . sttlrs
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Obormot . . 8 . . . 29 . 60 . 51 . 91 . 9 . 6 . . 11 . . 2
Erkon . . . 4 . . . 15 . 69 . 18 . 59 . 3 . 1 . . 10 . . 6
Roland E. . 5+1 . . 19 . __ . __ . __ . 5 . 0 . . 8. . . 5
killerloop. 6+1 . . 31 . 87 . 53 . 93 . 5 . 3 . . 11 . . 6 . . 1
jesusin . . 5 . . . 28 . 87 . 36 . 69 . 7 . 1 . . 13 . . 11
Munro . . . 6 . . . 25 . 43 . 45 . 75 . 6 . 0 . . 19 . . 5


I'm mid-table for size, hammers and food, but way behind in commerce (despite all my cottages..) I guess this must be overseas trade routes, because I have only met Boudacia at this point, and all my trade routes are domestic +1 gpt jobs (I assume you need to actually locate the AI city before you can have a trade route to it)?

I hadn't thought about that aspect; using WBs to boost your early income through AI contact. Well, I already learnt something! :D

Looks like killerloop is leading at this stage in the stats... :king:

Screenshot at 1000BC

Anyway, it was quite dull after taking out Churchill, just expanding and marching my units across the map, but it perked up a little once I reached (and DOW'd) the Khmer, Persians and Byzantines. The AI combat is definitely better, with more units garrisoned, and more aggressive counter attacks, especially against wounded attackers and lightly defended frontline cities. Also, Churchill had an archer defending his second worker (even during peace) after I stole the first one, which I've not seen before.

Looks like I overdid the early cottaging though, because by the early ADs I've researched all the techs I need (up to CoL) but am still turning about +100 gpt surplus pre-FP! So I could have invested more in faster expansion early on (and less in cottages). I also made several boredom-induced misclicks / errors of judgement - Prince is just too dull, and the no-tech-trading makes it even easier as far as I can tell.

Anyway, since jesusin is the only one to post stats for 1AD, here's how we compare: (captured GLH from Khmer)


Player cities+ pop GNP prod food wrkrs troops wonders
. . . sttlrs
--------------------------------------------------
jesusin 12 . . 56 . 163 51 . 174 . 9 . . .26
Munro . 12+1 . 57 . 77 .86 . 169 . 11 . . 49 . . 1


I'm behind in commerce (only 20 sustainable bpt! though have just discovered CoL which is as far as I planned to get). Ahead in troops and hammers. I have eliminated English (1 city), Khmer (2 cities) and captured 1 city from Byantines.

Screenshot at 10AD

I'm sure at this stage that I am quite far behind the fastest (challenger, dom) finish. More to follow in the final spoiler...
 

player . . cities+ .pop GNP prod food wrkrs WB troops bldgs wonders
. . . . . sttlrs
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Obormot . . 8 . . . 29 . 60 . 51 . 91 . 9 . 6 . . 11 . . 2
Erkon . . . 4 . . . 15 . 69 . 18 . 59 . 3 . 1 . . 10 . . 6
Roland E. . 5+1 . . 19 . __ . __ . __ . 5 . 0 . . 8. . . 5
killerloop. 6+1 . . 31 . 87 . 53 . 93 . 5 . 3 . . 11 . . 6 . . 1
jesusin . . 5 . . . 28 . 87 . 36 . 69 . 7 . 1 . . 13 . . 11
Munro . . . 6 . . . 25 . 43 . 45 . 75 . 6 . 0 . . 19 . . 5

Nice tables, thank you very much. It will be great when we add the victory dates in the final spoiler.

I am the builder of builders :lol: You had too much GNP at 1AD and I had more than double!
 
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