BOTM 04 Final Spoiler

[Shillen]

This game was pretty uneventful for me. As I said in the first spoiler I killed Gilgamesh when his town was undefended in like 3700BC or something like that so that left me with the whole continent to myself. I settled it fairly slowly because I was trying (and only moderately successfully) to keep my economy going in the meantime. It took a long time to get the jungle cities in the south going. I didn't learn optics until around 1320AD and then went immediately for astronomy so I could finally get some trade routes.

After that it was pretty uneventful. I just teched as fast as I could and kept to myself. I sold my techs for cash and traded for as many resources as I could. I eventually got sid's sushi company but I think it was very late because I wasted my economics great merchant on a GA or something. The Prince AI of course couldn't come anywhere near keeping up with me in techs.

At one point late in the game Wang Kon and Surveiyaman declared war on me together. I didn't have much of an army but I had railroads already and a tech lead so it didn't matter much. They did capture one of my cities because I was stupid but I took it right back then once I had a few battleships built I destroyed their navies and that was the end of that.

Like Vynd I built every spaceship part and found out it's totally not worth doing that unless you have your top two production cities about equal in production, which is pretty much never the case if you built Ironworks in the correct city. I really think the delayed victory on the spaceship is by far the worst thing about BtS (it's probably the only bad thing about BtS that I've found really). Late game turns just take a long time and when you already know you won it's really boring waiting for the victory. Considering I win 90% of my games by spaceship it's a little disheartening. But I love everything else about BtS so oh well.

I won in 1939 on contender. I definitely don't think I played a good game but it was fun anyway.

edit: Oh I had a lot of great random events occur in this game as well. I got several great people in my cities from them, I got the library quest which let me build an academy I believe, I had multiple sources of resources pop up on tiles and things like that. I really find the random events to make the game so much more fun and I applaud Firaxis big time for putting them in.

 

[DuncanIdaho v.1]

Contender, Spaceship victory 2013 (!)

Okay, my late game sure sucked, and sucked hard. In my defence, Hannibal was dominating his continent - he had about twenty cities, some of which were originally Sitting Bull's. In order to win, I had to knock him down a few pegs, which meant for a lengthy war where I razed about half of his coastal cities. I had built the AP, and spread religion to all the AI's but him - just as I was sending a missionary his way he pulled out the Theocracy card and kept it in play all game. Infidel.

I generated about 25 Great People, as well as four GGenerals; I had four GAges. This was my first game where I had a dedicated GP farm (Uruk, of course). I also played around with corporations at the end; Sid's Sushi is a fantastic way to boost population.

I also love the random events, even if the RNG hates me.

 

[jesusin]

Okay, my late game sure sucked, and sucked hard. In my defence, Hannibal was dominating his continent - he had about twenty cities, some of which were originally Sitting Bull's. In order to win, I had to knock him down a few pegs, which meant for a lengthy war where I razed about half of his coastal cities. I had built the AP, and spread religion to all the AI's but him - just as I was sending a missionary his way he pulled out the Theocracy card and kept it in play all game. Infidel.

Maybe you could have gifted him one of his owns cities back in a peace treaty, once it had been properly infected by your religion.

 

[jesusin]

Looking at Ribannah's very impressive culture game again, it strikes me that the really exceptional thing are the six religions founded. I've played many culture games and it's rare that I've been able to get 3 religions in my cities, founded by me or otherwise, early enough to make a difference.

Having 6 religions to play with meant that focusing on hammers was a great move, since it made it possible to spread the religions and build so many cathedrals, and to do it relatively early too. But if Ribannah had only, say, 3 religions to spread around, then all of those hammers probably would have been overkill.

Some other observations:

The Pyramids were important. Not that this is surprising. They seem to feature in all of the very best culture games. Ditto the Parthenon. But this is the best demonstration I've seen of the impact that the Mausoleum--and the tweak to Golden Ages in BotS--can have on a culture game. Three long Golden Ages are a big deal.

If I read correctly, Ribannah didn't settle any Great Artists but bombed them all instead. What with all of the Cathedrals that were eventually built, I'd bet that at least the first GA or two would have paid off even more had they been settled early.

I also am struck, again, that it pays to adjust your play to the difficulty level. Cottages and Great Artists is probably a the best culture strategy to pursue at say, Emperor difficulty, when it's tough to get lots of wonders and religions. But just because its the best strategy for Emperor doesn't mean that it's the way to go on Prince difficulty.

Very wise words. Thanks for sharing your ideas!

 

[kcd_swede]

I played contender save, and lost this game. I never recovered from the loss of my first settler plus warrior to barb wolf. That slowed me down so much, that I could not take out Gilgamesh early, and had a hard time keeping him from taking me out. After centuries of war, basically stalemate, I made peace with Gilga and tried to make him my friend. Got help of an RE famine in Uruk, sent him all the food from Nottingham and got +3. From then on, he was my best friend (+13 relation at end-game), and gifting me techs. Buying techs from him kept me in the game, actually. Sitting Bull was technically backwards the whole game and therefore useless for me, since I was struggling to keep up in techs more than any other issue. I didn't get Astro untill about 1450, Wang was already vassal to Surey. They were behind in tech, though, so I DOW'd them and grabbed the little island city with Redcoats. But then they got 20 frigates in my face and I decided to sue for peace (gave some cash) rather than divert my whole economy to war. Then they DOW me ten turns later... turns out they had an RE Crusade to take back that island (which happened to be seat of Islam). I found that out when I returned the island for peace (it was the only thing they would accept), then the scroll shows Surey has completed his crusade. I had basically given up at that point (about 1850), because my own personal war weariness took over. I was never going to reach Hannibal's score, as he had just gotten SB to capitulate. No chance of Diplo victory, since UN already built (by Gilga) and everyone but Gilga hates me anyhow. I tried to vote a diplo win for Gilga, but if I remember correctly, Hannibal won space race before votes were counted.

Anyhow... I had a fun playing from behind throw away all plans and adapting to the world as it is, rather than as I want it to be. I wish I was good enough to pull out a victory, though. Some frustration that an early loss (RNG-rape) decided my fate... but that's all part of the game, I guess. A better player could have won anyhow.

BTW- that was the first time I have ever seen a wolf defeat a warrior at full strength. Ever.

 

[Ribannah]

I always have the accompaning Warrior ahead of the Settler, instead of on the same tile. Then if the Warrior gets killed, the Settler can safely turn back.

@Vynd: my first Great Artist appeared less than 100 turns before the end, so he would have had to generate over 60 points of culture a turn.

 

[jancarly]

my goal was to go for a diplomatic victory.
I met Gil but left him alone, refusing open borders to have my half of the continent for myself.
The tech tree went pretty well. Swapping some techs with SB.
I founded three religions: confu, taoism, islam
Heading for AP and succeed! But i wasn't able to trigger a religion victory. Maybe I don't know enough about the victory conditions...
So heading for United Nations was my second goal. But meanwhile han declared war on my friend SB. And he was to weak to defend. I couldn't assist him in a war against han. So SB was losing population, and my votes. you guess what hapened. I wasn't able to get a diplomatic victory.
I think i lost the game there.
I still wanted to go for a victory but it was to late to change. I swapped everything on production to go for a late space ship victory. And 5 turns before I was ready to launch my ship, I received the message that the dutch people, my 2nd alliance, had won with a cultural victory.
My team won the game.
Well, I know, I'll have to do it with that

 

[jesusin]

@Vynd: my first Great Artist appeared less than 100 turns before the end, so he would have had to generate over 60 points of culture a turn.

14cpt (and some gold) with Sistine's with a x6 multiplier in the Hermitage city:

14*6*100= 8400c >> 6000c

 

[ChrisFromLux]

Heading for AP and succeed! But i wasn't able to trigger a religion victory. Maybe I don't know enough about the victory conditions...

Every Civ needs at least one city with the AP's religion for the Victory Vote to be available

EDIT: And you cannot have the 75% of the votes required to win all by yourself ... you need a friend, or another 'trick' ...

 

[kcd_swede]

I always have the accompaning Warrior ahead of the Settler, instead of on the same tile. Then if the Warrior gets killed, the Settler can safely turn back.

Smart! And thanks... now I can say I truly learned something from this painful experience. You have freed me from the whims of the RNG! Some, anyhow.

 

[Ribannah]

14cpt (and some gold) with Sistine's with a x6 multiplier in the Hermitage city:

14*6*100= 8400c >> 6000c

890ad-900ad = 1 x 21cpt = 21c
900ad-1020ad = 12 x 28cpt = 336c
1020ad-1080ad = 6 x 35cpt = 210c
1080ad-1220ad = 14 x 42cpt = 588c
1220ad-1335ad = 20 x 56cpt = 1120c
1335ad-1355ad = 4 x 63cpt =252c
1355ad-1380ad = 5 x 70cpt = 350c
1380ad-1560ad = 36 x 84cpt = 3024c

Total to equal victory date: 5891c < 6000c.

 

[DuncanIdaho v.1]

Maybe you could have gifted him one of his owns cities back in a peace treaty, once it had been properly infected by your religion.

Nice! That would have done it. He had the most population, and was loathed by all the other AI's for being the only Buddhist.

 

[nokem]

At 500AD I was first in score and competitive in tech. That was about as good as it got.

After reading the other spoilers I decided I would have to go for Gil before it was too late. I pursued a strategy of beelining Liberalism to stay in touch tech-wise while building a force to take Uruk.

I attacked in about 1400AD with cats and maces. Destroyed his intercepting army with minor losses but made the target with a weakened army. Lost about 8 maces without making a dent in his defensive longbows so I withdrew.

That was about the end of my game. I sued for peace and aimed for mass media and the UN. By 1700AD it was obvious I was far too far adrift so I retired. I was tempted to play on and see some of the late-game BTS features, but I have limited playing time. This month's monarch GOTM gives me a chance to practise the basics before worrying about Sid's Sushi.

nokem

 

[MacBalt]

Contender, Domination Victory in 1849

Got the domination victory, but not as "fast" as I'd hoped. The absence of Iron hobbled my crossbow strategy and made Gilgamesh a tough opponent for my axes and catapults. Didn't feel ready to start a war of conquest against him until 460 AD. Here is the link to my first spoiler with the other gruesome early game details:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6645714&postcount=14

Got Uruk in 610 AD (turn 214), but the rest of Sumeria took until 1290 (turn 278) to take down. That pretty much spoiled any advantage I'd hoped to gain from (my attempt at) fast teching. My armies were still way too busy with Gilgamesh to take advantage of getting Astronomy in 805 AD (turn 227).

I built a fleet anyway, of course, and went after Suryavarman 1510 and Wang Kon in 1635. Wang Kon was destroyed by 1726 and Suryavarman vassalized with one island city left a few years later. Willem was next, beginning in 1762. After taking all his continental cities, I only needed to conquer about half of Sitting Bull's cities in order to reach the domination limit. Didn't even bother with Hannibal.

Interesting notes from this game:

1) It was probably unnecessary, but at some point I moved my capital to the copper & cottage city on the river near the start location. The interesting thing was that random events kept happening to London rather than to the new capital city. I'd have to check to make sure how many, but I know for a fact at least one slave revolt happened in London after the capital had been moved to the other city. I'm not sure that is an important enough observation to make changing capitals a more appealing option, but I thought it was interesting anyway.

2) At what point do Partisans appear when raising cities??? I raised one of Willem's crap cities in 1768 (turn 394) and it popped five musketmen! At that time, musketmen were fairly advanced (for me, anyway) and they proceeded to kill some of my best (wounded) macemen units, including my Great General "Medic" unit! I thought partisans were supposed to be low-level units and I'd never seen them pop up after a maceman attack before. Needless to say, I didn't raise any more of Willem's cities.

3) As a final irony, about two turns before I conquered the iron tile near the Korean capital (who needed those crossbowmen anyway? ), wouldn't you know that a random event popped iron for me in the BFC of my third city back on the home continent.



...

Hey hellwitch, I'd still love to learn how you managed to get Astronomy by 200 AD (not that I could have used it to help me much in this game). I never traded with Sitting Bull (partly because I thought something was screwed-up about it and partly because I was being a little stupid about it). Was that connection part of how you were able to get there so fast?

 

[timmy827]

Goal: fastest domination (wasn't really sure initially, was first GOTM for me. Played on contender.) Achieved domination in 1700AD.

First Spoiler

Finished Gilgamesh in 640AD. I think I kept all but one city; the AI for city placement seems to have improved significantly! Built GL/NE in Uruk and poured out the GS's - 4 GP born between 910AD and 1080AD, crazy. Circumnavigate with aid of a map sale in 1160. Liberalism in 1325AD, taking Democracy.

I start my first intercontinental war (pretty much the first time I've done this in civ4) in 1370 - still with medieval units. I jump the gun because Wang declared on Sury who was going to be target #1 anyways. I truce once to avoid a giant horse archer stack, then take the capital and vassalize Sury in 1450 (by this time I'm using a good number of grenadiers). I decide that vassalization is the best route due to WW problems and difficulty moving troops around over water. The war against Wang goes 1470-1515. Seoul is amazing containing several good wonders and 3 settled generals; by this time I'm in state property and workshops turn Seoul into a superb military pump. Also Seoul has iron so I can build cannon and ships of the line.

War against Hannibal 1570 - 1635 (again capitulating). Turn off research after rifling and military tradition and start buying cav in ex-cathaginian cities; by this time I had gotten a decent hang of efficient troop transport too. Last war against Bull begins 1655 and he is stubborn enough to not capitulate before I get victory. These last two wars were very tedious; I was surprised at how resistant to capitulation both were (Hannibal after I had taken all but 4 of what was originally 14 or cities). Willem got to Rifling before my invasion of Hannibal but the latter and SB were stuck with easily killed medieval units. Also I had been causing the AI's lots of problems with privateer blockades.

I'm hoping this is competitive for fastest domination. I probably could have done it a little faster if I had tech traded with SB - I thought the contact was some sort of mistake and basically ignored him until buying a world map showing his territory. But my tech was flying with the CS+academy abuse so I don't think I could have gotten more than a couple techs from him. I also was doing enough espionage for city visibility, so I could have conquered faster had I used some spies to drop culture defenses.

 

[MacBalt]

my tech was flying with the CS+academy... I also was doing enough espionage for city visibility, so I could have conquered faster had I used some spies to drop culture defenses.

Wow, great domination game timmy827! I let my tech pace fall to practically nothing after trying to get Astronomy early and I see from your post that I've got to figure out how to use vassalization effectively too. Still lots to learn... Thanks for posting your game details.

 

[Ribannah]

York
1375ad SPIRAL MINARET
1430ad UNIVERSITY OF SANKORE

I was very disappointed when I discovered that these wonders only counted state religion buildings in York itself, where I expected them to count all state religion buildings in my empire. Such expensive wonders giving a mere 6 gold each, that doesn't seem right. Or is this a bug?

 

[Lexad]

I think they should work for the whole empire. Maybe it is a graphic bug, not gameplay bug. Have you checked the financial/scientific output of each city?

 

[Ribannah]

Ah, strike my remark. For some reason I thought that they would work the same way as a shrine, but the wealth and research are generated at the buildings. So everything is alright.

 

[mabraham]

Like Vynd I built every spaceship part and found out it's totally not worth doing that unless you have your top two production cities about equal in production, which is pretty much never the case if you built Ironworks in the correct city. I really think the delayed victory on the spaceship is by far the worst thing about BtS (it's probably the only bad thing about BtS that I've found really). Late game turns just take a long time and when you already know you won it's really boring waiting for the victory. Considering I win 90% of my games by spaceship it's a little disheartening. But I love everything else about BtS so oh well.

Well, if you're sure you've won, then automate your workers, fortify all your units, select all your cities and choose build research. Presto, no decisions to take any time.