BOTM 07 Final Spoiler

Gnejs · Jul 20, 2008

Great game, jesusin!
I started this game (challenger save) two days before the deadline with the intention of completing a peaceful game in an evening. But for some reason BTS games take much longer to play than Vanilla or Warlords. Or maybe it was the combination of huge landmasses and continents? Anyway, I gave up when night was approaching and I still hadn't made it past 1000 AD.

jm4civ4 · Jul 20, 2008

jesusin said:
I hope I was clear enough to make you understand why I call this "cheating around the rule".

crystal clear - thanks for your help, gotta love the AP

and now for something completely differenr...
assuming you use spec econ, is there a point at which one needs to switch to a hybrid or pure CE?

kcd_swede · Jul 21, 2008

I guess my problem is as usual poor city specialization. I had relied too heavily on cash-rushing units, which proves not to be as effective as I had thought. Maybe the Kremlin would have helped, but that proved outof my grasp - my prod city just couldn't build it quite quick enough to the level I could afford to rush it. Only a couple turns away, but close doesn't count, does it?

DynamicSpirit · Jul 21, 2008

kcd_swede said:
Isn't it theoretically possible to make the BOTM start save begin after running a game with your map for 1 turn, so all the AI are established?

That's a very good idea and something I have been thinking about - it could well be the solution. It's theoretically perfectly possible - we had a challenger penalty of starting late recently, I just play the turn by skipping all units' moves. I think that would definitely work unless civ is doing anything very wierd with the personalities, which I doubt, but I'd like to be absolutely certain

Yamps · Jul 24, 2008

This was a great game, but sadly I missed the submission deadline.

I had some hardware problems when I planned to finish the game. It was great: 4 slavery cities, 2 production cities and Globe pumping rifles like mad.

Oh, well. Hope I'll have some time for the BOTM 8, that looks like great fun too.

Jeffa · Jul 28, 2008

Russian

Spoiler :

Lexad · Jul 28, 2008

First, my own report

Strategy:
1. Go for Alpha via cottages - done
2. Get Theo via Oracle (900BC) - done
3. Lightbulb Optics with GS (450 AD) - done, but late
4. Build AP (75BC) - done
5. Spread religion ASAP, but as simultaneously as possible so that AI does not overspread it and prevent me from winning the vote - done, but the failure of the last missionary cost me 15 turns to my victory, as for the last 14 turns all I was doing was waiting for the vote.
6. After I found I was alone with Musa, I decided to go for peaceful victory and thus increase my chances of winning without self-voting - done.

Settled on bananas, build worker, then warrior, then settler - or smth like that. Second city on river hill eastwards, grabbing corn and copper - my production city, home of the Oracle and AP. Then settled the rest of riverside, horsetown eastwards, and fish and dye cities westwards.
Techwise - Wheel, Pottery, Mining, BW to get my economy rumbling; Myst, Poly, Phood for Oracle, Masonry, Mono to unlock Theo, Wri, Theo with Oracle; Alpha, traded for AH, Sailing, Hunting; MetCasting, traded for Maths, IW, Calendar; learnt Compass, Machinery, lightbulbed Optics, and after that it was immaterial what to learn.

Voting and relations - was almost all the time Jewish except AP construction (to determine its voting religion) and final vote, when I turned Christian. Mansa started spreading Judaism in my cities, I spread Christianity in one of his, and then he happily spread it to all the others - an AP-loss protection mechanism for AI, I recon. After Optics, slaved and sent caavels with missionaries to spread the word. Finished by 910AD, at voting point turned Christian to double my votes; I was the only eligible for the victory as an AP owner. Friendly Jewish Mansa supported me, and it was a victory by a wide margin.

Overall constructing Oracle and AP myself might have put too much a check on my expansion and thus delayed Optics for too long.

Lexad · Jul 28, 2008

Jeffa's report
Wasn't aware of all the fuss with self-voting limit of 75%, was thinking it was 60% (Lexad's note - it is, but for Diplo), was aiming at creating a big friend and gift AP city to a third party, which will be another contestant. But without any third party before Astro decided just to give Theo, so he would build AP himself (Lexad's note - IMO, rather risky, as the builder can switch religions while building, lose the AP race, or outgrow you so that you need military invasion. But the risk definitely paid out here).

Banana capital, techwise - Wheel-Pottery-Mining-BW-Wri-Myst-Poly-Phood-Maths-CoL-CS (Oracle, 1040BC). Academy in 1160BC.
I was going for GEng, so was targeting MCasting, and only then went for Theo and Optics, while actively settling (7 cities).
The first AI I met (Ragnar) had no religion in his capital and thus was the prime candidate for the voting peer. I spread to him Confu (state rel of me and Musa). Popped GE in 375AD (60% prob, a fine point here), but he popped his own in 520AD! Just gifted him Theo and he built the AP. Then during 12 turns spread Confu among other AI (the only risk was with Liz, others were in no-religion cities). The other risk factor was possible loss of AP race by Ragnar, as I wasn't the first to Theo, but AI tend to build it at this level circa 1000AD, so not much hazard from here.

Summary: if we had 3-4 AI at our home continent, this method (AP-gifting) could've gained us victory even earlier, without any wars or 75%-margin tweaking.

Lexad · Jul 28, 2008

Please find my and Jeffa's reports in BOTM7 Gauntlet thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=278562

Moderator Action: I have moved them here, as this is the correct place for spoilers for BOTM 7.

jesusin · Jul 29, 2008

Thank you very much for the info. I know I've been rather insistent, but it has proven to be definitely worth it.

By the way, hhhawk, start moving your lazy fingers!

I have attached a comparison between the games (see below).

It is rather interesting that the 3 of us followed very different strategies. I am sad that luck has so big an effect (Musa didn't found any religion in one of the games) but fortunatelly it didn't hapen to anyone with serious options of winning.

Gifting Theo + GE to an enemy! Incredible! :goodjob:

Having no rival in the election! Incredible! :goodjob:

Lexad · Jul 29, 2008

Actually, my strat is not "create rival overseas", it is the good old Communist "single candidate" strat.
As for other points, because of extremely short research route to Optics I planned no Academy - used 1 GS for Optics and then GP for golden age.

Thanx for the putting the comparison together!

I'll tell hhhawk you're anxious

jesusin · Jul 29, 2008

Lexad said:
Actually, my strat is not "create rival overseas", it is the good old Communist "single candidate" strat.

If a rival overseas would have been religionless he would have been the second candidate, wouldn't it?

What would you have done if Musa had converted to Christianism?

In my game Musa was Christian from the beggining, so I should have used
Jeffa's strategy... but such a bright idea never entered my mind.

Lexad · Jul 29, 2008

If a rival overseas would have been religionless he would have been the second candidate, wouldn't it?

No. If there are no Christian nations in the world, the only candidate is the AP owner - as was my case.

What would you have done if Musa had converted to Christianism?

- why should he? He is Judaism founder, and noone else was Christian (or liked him) to bribe him into conversion - not even me. Almost zero probablity; however, if he converted, I'd get several his cities and self-vote.

jesusin · Jul 29, 2008

Lexad said:
No. If there are no Christian nations in the world, the only candidate is the AP owner - as was my case.

Please excuse my poor English. I'll try to rephrase my question:

If a rival overseas would have been religionless before you met him, then you infect one of his cities with a Christian missionary, in that case, he would most probably have converted to Christianism and then, in that case, he would have been candidate. Right?

Anyway, even having another candidate, I assume Musa would have voted for you and it wouldn't have mattered. Right?

jesusin · Jul 29, 2008

I am surprised nobody tried the strategy of founding an early religion A, using it to convert Musa to A, spreading it to evey city, then send a single Christian missionary to Musa and the rest, build a Christian AP, etc...

That's something that would have worked nicely in my game, since it would have avoided Musa being Christian.

Lexad · Jul 29, 2008

If a rival overseas would have been religionless before you met him, then you infect one of his cities with a Christian missionary, in that case, he would most probably have converted to Christianism and then, in that case, he would have been candidate. Right?

Right. So he is a small adversary vs me and Manny, and I win

I am surprised nobody tried the strategy of founding an early religion A, using it to convert Musa to A, spreading it to evey city, then send a single Christian missionary to Musa and the rest, build a Christian AP

Unnecessary if Manny founds his own religion.

chunkymonkey · Jul 29, 2008

Figured I should write a summary of what happened in my game, since I got the space award and srad was asking if a pre-1850 launch could be done. Don't really remember a lot of the strategy behind my game, but I've been through the autolog and pulled out the tech path I took etc.

Essentially, I decided from the beginning I would go for space. I settled my first few cities on the bananas scattered around the coast as I figured (whether correct or not) this would benefit me more.

I was pleased that Mansa was a lone neighbour and decided I would keep him sweet until the useful techs from him started drying up. I slowly built up an army whilst purely concentrating on researching as fast as possible, then when he became useless (he was also becoming annoyed that I was Taoist and he was Christian), I vassalised him and directed his research.

I did the usual fast research game (Academies asap, CS slinsghot, Great library...)with a mostly cottage economy and sold techs to all the others (very cheaply sometimes) so I could keep 100% research all game. It was just a case of rolling through the tech tree then. I had 5 golden ages (1 Taj Mahal induced) and left the final one til the end to get my final spaceship parts built just that bit quicker.

I'm sure I could have had a quicker time if I'd been more focussed, but i'm finding Space Race games such a slog nowadays i lose patience sometimes!!

p.s. Dikes are amazing!!

Spoiler :

Techs

Spoiler :

Cities

Spoiler :

Great People

Spoiler :

Wonders

Spoiler :

srad · Jul 29, 2008

chunkymonkey said:
Figured I should write a summary of what happened in my game, since I got the space award and srad was asking if a pre-1850 launch could be done.

Thank you for the summary!

CS Slingshot, I didn't tried it but I should consider it more in the future. And you "only" had ten cities. That's also interesting.

Think the badest decision in my game was to kill Mansa too early. I saw the marble in his land and was so fixed on it :lol:

.

hhhawk · Jul 31, 2008

Yes, to me laziness to press buttons. And plus my nasty English. (Thanks to online translator :borg:

)
Briefly about game:
capital on bananas,
manufacture - warrior, worker, warrior, setler,
science - cows, mines, bronze, a wheel, pots,
Oracle in 775 ВС - Theology,
solved to use religion by Mansa,
Mansa of me was afraid at learned protective techs, and I to Optics learned all itself,
GS have gone on Academy - 425BC,
Coloss - 275AD,
AP - 540AD,
Optics - 560AD.
Then I have started to make inadequate decisions - to be at war with Mansa,
growing population, to carry an explorer on huts (Astro it was not possible to pull out).
As a result, on victorious voting in 1060 there was no one course (has not had time to bring religion in
Korea).
And further "madhouse Veselka" :crazyeye:

- the automatic device exposed resolutions:
peace with Mansa,
opening borders,
elections of the leader and so already till 1360.
Strategy was following - cottages with Academy (depends on maps), the Oracle (fast Theology, the state religion was not necessary),
slow construction AP, for distribution of religion Optics and a set of a control package of voices (small war, growing population).

jesusin · Jul 31, 2008

hhhawk said:
Yes, to me laziness to press buttons. And plus my nasty English.

Thanks for bothering. I really appreciate it. :goodjob:

Comparison updated here:

BOTM 07 Final Spoiler

Deity

Warlord

Jag är Viking!½

Fear him of the pink tie

Deity

Chieftain

oldfart

oldfart

oldfart

Ant

Attachments

oldfart

Ant

oldfart

Ant

Ant

oldfart

Procrastinator

King

Chieftain

Ant

Attachments

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