BOTM 31 First Spoiler

[DynamicSpirit]

BOTM 31 First Spoiler

So how did your game go? Tell everyone and discuss in this thread, subject to...

Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 31, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER

• You have reached at least 500 AD in your game, OR
• You have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions

• Please do not discuss anything that happened after 500 AD,
• Please do not divulge any information about any AIs or parts of the map that require caravels to reach.
• Please do not discuss the location of resources that may not show up before 500 AD (coal and later).
• Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.

 

[haphazard1]

Spoiler thread up at last. First time in a long while I have actually finished my game early enough to post.

Settled on the marble for the extra hammers -- first worker finished amazingly fast, then warriors for exploration. AH first for the pigs, then BW. No copper visible, of course.

I had found the flood plains to the west, so went Wheel -> Fishing -> Pottery so I could build a mega-commerce city. Hamburg went on the desert hill by the pigs and paid for my early empire. Munich went to the east on a plains hill with more pigs and clams. Cologne went north for the silver.

I did not get Stonehenge, too busy expanding. But having seen how much land was out there, Berlin built the Great Wall, finishing it the same turn I saw the first barb warrior. This was a key move, allowing me to avoid spending hammers on units. If anyone did not build it, I will be interested to hear how much barb trouble they had.

I met Catherine to the west, and got a lucky break a few turns later when I founded Judaism and she converted the next turn. I quickly realized she was on an island, and resolved to keep her off the mainland. This would lead to two short wars later, as I declared on her and razed her city each time she tried to grab the iron site on the edge of the jungle, south of her island. Relations were badly damaged, of course, but the mainland was mine. And Catherine was too weak to challenge me once I had settled the coastal areas she could easily reach.

I built the Oracle early and took Metal Casting for cheap industrious forges. I almost certainly could have gotten a more advanced tech, but without knowledge of other civs I did not want to take the risk. Also, I really like early MC when I am industrious for the hammer and happiness boost. And the silver was the only early happiness I had, other than religion.

By 500 AD, I had 12 cities and was continuing to expand rapidly. I had built 7 wonders including Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, and (475 AD) Apostolic Palace. I got an early Great Spy from the Great Wall, which I settled -- knowing everything Catherine was doing was a useful advantage. Despite the Temple of Artemis I got two merchants for GPs #2 and #3. Prophets had been most likely, and I could really have used the shrine cash as I had been spreading Judaism widely to take advantage of the hammer bonuses from the AP.

I had not met anyone but Catherine at 500 AD, but I had not made any effort to push for Optics. As is probably obvious, I had not decided on a victory condition at this point. I was just focusing on growing into all the available land, and having a ton of fun with an almost pure builder game. Tons of land, zero barb issues due to the Great Wall, and industrious with marble. Life was good for the German people.

 

[mabraham]

I played the game twice, both times aiming at conquest with knights and trebs. Settled on marble, researching AH each time.

The first time I went no-wonder no-religion high-military CE, beelining BW, IW then Alpha, expecting I'd have someone on my landmass to compete/trade with. Obviously, that didn't work out to be efficient. I did extra bad by not recognizing that silver was my only source of happiness, and the city that was going to get it needed two border pops. I probably over-expanded too. I did remember to settle the eastern island for the off-continent trade routes, which are important in isolated scenarios. Barbs were noteworthy but not scary. My large size meant I needed about four units on barb patrol, but that allowed me to grow my level 4 unit before warring, which was worth something.

The second time I went high-wonder + religion aiming at SE with OR + Caste System + Rep to crush the world. I went for and got Judaism, Stonehenge, Great Wall, Oracle (CoL+confu), Artemis, Pyramids, GL, Parthenon. Teched religion + alpha, got Russia to friendly with resource trades, religion, help with tech, and now she traded me the backfill. If I'd needed it, I could have run HR from Pyramids. Floodplain city did most of the research from many scientists. Barbs were obviously a non-problem, but it meant I had a later Heroic Epic. Obviously I had more happiness than I could handle. Production was fine early - OR was useful (you want to spread the religion for the shrines AND for the benefit), and in the early midgame OR got the forges up faster. Being later to get BW I still had my post-Maths forests to chop, too.

 

[JacktheBodiless]

As of 500 AD I am having fun... way ahead of Cathy, got my key wonders and buildings built, happiness resources hooked up, getting ready to fill up the remaining land mass of the continent and conquer Cathy's lone settlement on my big landmass.

I decided to go SE with a cottaged capital. Built Hamburg to the West to utilize flood plains, then expanded further West and North to cut off Cathy. Neglected religion in an effort to get way ahead on GS-leveraging techs, and Hamburg is set up to be a major GS factory (should be a GS every 10/12 turns) with GL, NE, getting the love from my Parthenon in Berlin. SE synergized by Representation I am running off the Great Pyramids of Berlin. Probably the rate-limiting factor has been the corruption issues and the fact that I have had to favor production, keeping my commerce a little choked back. Should be ready to kick in the turbo soon, and I anticipate winning Liberalism race pretty easily.

???Victory condition??? Likely not cultural due to lack of religion (Cathy just recently spread Confucianism my way). Obviously not religious. I recently light-bulbed optics and I am considering building a navy once I get astro, but with the modified science victory condition that might be the fastest way to go. I'm allowed to mention that now, right? I mean, it's visible from the first turn of the game in the victory advisor.

 

[beestar]

Took the Challenger save, going for cultural.

Oracled CoL, and teched Theology for Christianity and bulbed Philo for Taoism. Won the race to Music.

Since we're IND and I settled on the marble, I went a bit nuts on the wonders: got Oracle, Pyramids, Parthenon, GLib. By 500AD I was planning on getting AP for the hammers, and Sistine Chapel to boost artists. Others: Mauselleos for the Great Artist points and Liberalism to Nationalism and Hermitage/Taj Mahal, then shut off research and either build Wealth or run merchants to pump that cultural slider to 100%

Cathy is a Friendly fellow Confucianist, and on Prince I'm way ahead of her on techs and it's easy to get her to trade backfill techs to me. I was annoyed that she landed a city on my landmass, but I decided I can't develop all that land in time for it to pay back anyway. Probably a sign that I need more workers.

I should be able to finish the Cultural victory before the other AIs get Astronomy ... maybe even before the Caravels show up?

 

[kcd_swede]

Challenger Save

I settled on the marble for the extra hammer, and since I've never actually settled a marble PH, I wanted to see how that works out. It works out very good for rapid early development, but since there was tons of free land and nobody else in sight, I'm not sure it makes much difference here.

I am planning on wonder-spamming as soon as I finish settling my continent. But that may take a while, still, since at 425AD (no 500AD save to check) I had 7 cities and only 2 wonders (Oracle and Parthenon). I took CoL form Oracle, because I didn't start building it until late (needed economy techs before preisthood). I thus founded Confucianism, which spread to my only met neighbor (Catherine). She became Friendly quickly and is a good trade partner. She is stuck at 2 cities, so eventually she will have to be assimilated into the German nation. Why doesn't she expand to my continent? Probably my settling pattern... I have taken all the good spots along the north/west coasts.

Barbs without Great Wall? C'mon, this is Prince level. That will just prevent you from getting XP. Note... the two settlers I lost to barbs (my second and my fifth, iirc) were due entirely to carelessness and the Great Wall would only have prevented one of them. (First settler death was a misclick, second settler death was a Goto order inside my borders).

At 500AD I'm still obsessed by Manifest Destiny. Slider at around 50% most of the time. Heading for Optics to meet AI before they meet me, which will allow me to backstab Russia without getting diplomatic penalties. Russians have built the Great Lighthouse (and the Great Wall), so it is a very tempting prize.

Not much happy bonuses on the continent, so HR is the way to go, and therefore Pyramids would be mostly wasted... not to mention that without stone I usually don't build it, but as Industrious its not always a bad decision. Note, if you use HR for happiness, its one more reason NOT to build the Great Wall... you'll never have a shortage of military units to deal with anything the barbs might throw at you.

I'm looking towards a space race, though I'm not really going for speed this time since there is no Oxford in sight for a long time, I think, and no CS-sling, and more early REX than is advisable, perhaps. (And losing 2 settlers before having 4 cities is kind of a kick in the teeth for any "fastest finish" plans. )

But its fun, and if it continues to be fun I might even milk it a bit to see what score I can acheive.

 

[Seanirl]

At 500AD myself.

It's going pretty well I think. I had expected to be losing horribly but I've actually managed to get loads of wonders and overall I'm quite pleased especially considering how badly my recent Japanese game went.

I got the Oracle which let me get Metal Casting for nothing which was nice, got Stonehenge too because I could. Importantly though, I managed to get The Pyramids just as happiness was becoming a problem and went Representation for +3 in the 6 biggest cities so that solved that problem. Got about 3 Great Prophets so far I think. Was beaten to Confucianism but managed to found Christianity and built Church Of The Nativity. That and using a GP as a specialist helped solve some of my money problems.

Right now I can see the Russians have built a city near the edge of the land I can see in the NW which is the first sign of their cities I've had.

I've settled basically the east coast. I put Hamburg just to the SW of Berlin which is on the starting tile. My 3rd went to the east next to the clams and the most recent is to the south east next to the sugar and corn. Gonna move out west to the horses by the coast next but my money doesn't really allow it right now I think. Besides, until I can transport units across the sea I don't really need horses.

This was a key move, allowing me to avoid spending hammers on units. If anyone did not build it, I will be interested to hear how much barb trouble they had.

I didn't get the Great Wall and yeah... I've had some trouble lately. It was alright at first but recently I got caught with a couple of warriors in my cities and the barbs were coming at me with Spearmen and Archers . I hadn't seen anything much from them so I got caught with hardly any military. Managed to pump out 2 Axemen though and that sorted everything out. Mostly alright apart from that 1 scare.

Quite far ahead of Cathy in technology except that she has Mathematics and I don't. She has no religion too so no diplo penalty and I hope to spread Christianity her way at some point but that's still a bit ahead I think... or should I beeline for Caravels at the expense of other technologies? Well, without State Property and in my current state it'd be hard to manage a stretched out empire I suppose so contacts and religion are about my only reason to explore I suppose apart from any resources I may not have but iron is plentiful and I have copper so... I have about every military resource for now.

Also, I am planning a military victory as ever ^_^. Not that it'll succeed...

 

[beestar]

Importantly though, I managed to get The Pyramids just as happiness was becoming a problem and went Representation for +3 in the 6 biggest cities so that solved that problem.

3 biggest cities, I believe.

BTW, I agree that there's no need to build the Great Wall. Fogbusting is the way to avoid early barb problems and it's a very useful thing to learn. Might as well get some practice while we're playing Noble level games!

 

[Seanirl]

3 biggest cities, I believe.

Is it? Could've sworn it was 6...

The site says it's 4 to 6 depending on map size actually. Makes sense I suppose. Think it was 6 in my last game... can't be sure about this one...

 

[budweiser]

I made 2 big mistakes. Mistake number 1 was not switching to Monarchy for quite a long time after I researched it. The second mistkae came after 500 AD.

 

[budweiser]

EDIT: I opened with SH>Oracle>CoL, then bulbed Theo and then Bulbed CS with prophets. I had 3 religions by 500AD.

 

[haphazard1]

Sounds like the barbs were not that big a problem for most players. Although losing 2 settlers counts as pretty serious trouble in my book.

Experience is not a problem -- I could send a unit outside my borders and fight multiple barbs any time I wanted. Usually had to when I wanted to send a new settler party out, anyway.

Fog busting is a good tactic, and I use it often. But I had sent out the starting scout and several early warriors -- with a marble plains hill giving 2 extra hammers in the city center, I got several warriors out while growing to happy cap before my first settler. I knew there was too much land for fog busting to be practical. So the Great Wall was an obvious early goal for me.

I did not have many problems with happiness. We had silver, and I took MC from the Oracle to get industrious forges into play early for another bonus happiness. I spread my religion widely and built a lot of temples. I built the Pyramids and revolted to Rep. I went for Calendar early and got the incense, sugar, and dye hooked up. Finally, I researched Drama for theaters and another bonus happiness with dye. Plenty of happiness was available even without HR.

 

[kcd_swede]

Sounds like the barbs were not that big a problem for most players. Although losing 2 settlers counts as pretty serious trouble in my book.

Yes, well... if the Great Wall lets you un-do a misclick, or at least provides a prompt "Are you really sure you want to do that?" any time you do something careless... then its a "MUST HAVE" wonder for me.

Maybe in Civ5.

 

[urbis]

Is it? Could've sworn it was 6...

The site says it's 4 to 6 depending on map size actually. Makes sense I suppose. Think it was 6 in my last game... can't be sure about this one...

Just checked my game and Representation gives 3 happiness in the 5 largest cities (on this map size at least).

 

[Seanirl]

I've a burning question...

What did most of you do with all the silver (and some food resources) up in the frozen north? Obviously having multiples of something like silver is quite useful for trading purposes but any city around there will be almost useless.

Anyone build a city up there? I just ignored it like I always do. I'm a perfectionist when it comes to city placement and even a mountain next to corn makes me cringe .
This isn't the first time that I've wanted colonies from Civ III back...

 

[beestar]

I used both of the silver sites. There's an amazing Moai Statues site there. As I recall it's got a silver mine, a seafood resource, and a huge number of inland lake tiles that are (3F, 1H, 2C) with Moai and lighthouse.

[correction - silver mine, inland lake, and two deer]

I also stuck a city up north with the two food resources, and a silver mine. I was going for culture so it basically just built Wealth and ran some merchant specialists.

 

[Arnold_T]

I did the Moai Statues with the Silver-Deer site too - nice city!
I've had fun building Wonders this game, but didn't really have a goal in mind - I guess I'll go for a (slow) spaceship win.
The Russians are amazingly stupid - Catherine has sent over a galley with a settler and a single chariot onto my island - only to be quickly destroyed by a spearman - not once - but three times! does the A.I never give up on losing strategies?!?

 

[Ronnie1]

I used both of the silver sites. There's an amazing Moai Statues site there. As I recall it's got a silver mine, a seafood resource, and a huge number of inland lake tiles that are (3F, 1H, 2C) with Moai and lighthouse.

I also stuck a city up north with the two food resources, and a silver mine. I was going for culture so it basically just built Wealth and ran some merchant specialists.

Yea that would have been a great Moai site. Wish I would have but mine there.

I put mine down on the peninsula in the SE, but it was late in coming, and not very worthwhile.

What did most of you do with all the silver (and some food resources) up in the frozen north? Obviously having multiples of something like silver is quite useful for trading purposes but any city around there will be almost useless.

I put another city in the NE using the other silver mine, 2 windmills(I think, maybe 2 mines) and the fish for food. IF, big if, there are seafood resources and hills, I will settle tundra/ice later in the game if necessary.

 

[haphazard1]

I also settled two cities for the silvers, one with the two seafood and the northern silver and the other with the fresh water lake, deer tiles, and the other silver.

Wish I had thought to put Moai in the freshwater lake city -- it was working like 10 water tiles later in the game. Big mistake on my part.

Seanirl, if you have a food source and some coast, a city in the ice is well worth having. With two food sources and coast, the northern site was an excellent city. I worked the silver mine, seafood, and fluctuating numbers of coast tiles -- with two food sources you can whip as much infrastructure (or units) as you care to build. Or if you prefer SE, work the silver, seafood, and run some specialists. I got a lot of beakers and gold from that city over time, and even some workers and a couple settlers when it was whipped to the happy cap and needed time to come out of unhappiness. And of course, I got a second silver from it plus the two seafood resources.

The southern silver site was an amazing city, even without Moai. I had built the Colossus, so the fresh water lake tiles were 3F 3C each. I grew the city to the happy cap and it produced a lot of beakers and gold while pumping out settlers and workers. I think I got at least 6 of each from this city.

 

[Seanirl]

I did the Moai Statues with the Silver-Deer site too - nice city!

I used both of the silver sites. There's an amazing Moai Statues site there. As I recall it's got a silver mine, a seafood resource, and a huge number of inland lake tiles that are (3F, 1H, 2C) with Moai and lighthouse.

Hmm... hadn't thought about using the Moai Statues. Still, I suppose it comes back to the age old question of: Do I want to use X to make a crappy Y reasonable, or a good Y brilliant?

Personally I put my Moai...

I put mine down on the peninsula in the SE, but it was late in coming, and not very worthwhile.

...here I think. If I'm thinking of the right place. I had a city in between Sugar and Corn in that jungle area in the SE. I figured I'd take a reasonably productive city and make it better. Maybe should've built it earlier, I dunno... I always leave Moai Statues and National Wonders in general so late because I'm afraid of building them in the wrong place

Seanirl, if you have a food source and some coast, a city in the ice is well worth having. With two food sources and coast, the northern site was an excellent city.

I see. I've always been too afraid of useless tiles and ignorant regarding the true viability of such places to ever bother with them much. I'll have to keep it in mind.

The southern silver site was an amazing city, even without Moai. I had built the Colossus, so the fresh water lake tiles were 3F 3C each. I grew the city to the happy cap and it produced a lot of beakers and gold while pumping out settlers and workers. I think I got at least 6 of each from this city.

I often like to get The Colossus but somebody beat me to it this time

One of the few wonders I've aimed for and missed. I think the only other was The Parthenon.