BOTM 39 Final Spoiler

DynamicSpirit

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BOTM 39 Final Spoiler



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(continued from first spoiler) ... but then the game changed to a 'bloody' mess. :cry: Alex declared; no problem I was prepared with Horse Archers but some turns later Mehmed also declared with a really huge stack and started conquering cities. I did no pay enough attention to my diplo! And it is wise to do so on higher levels. Once again I learn it the hard way.
I'll not dig me out of this situation and save the RL time.

[Sorry, I cannot submit the retired game due to SGOTM testing. I deleted my saves accidentally.]

Thanks DS for the interesting game setup!!
 
I peacefully consolidated my eventually-12-city empire while teching towards liberalism, intending to make more conquests when my highly promoted army turned into riflemen. This took a long, long time. Mao vassalized Pacal, and everyone kept piling on Churchill (I took a couple border cities). I popped economics out of Liberalism in 1300ad, not having enough time to pop rifling. Unfortunately Mao (now done with Churchill) declared on me, being pleased/friendly with the other AI's (I alternated pleased/cautious with Mao, and couldn't figure out a way to prevent an attack). He was a military beast, and my offense-promoted maces got owned by his cho-ko-nu army.

What's a good way to prevent being owned by siege attacks in the cats/trebuchets era? It seems that having a defensive army of cats isn't that effective (especially since I would need to get them ready and in the right place on short notice). However, I frequently find myself unable to hold down a city because of bombarded defense and a lot of collateral damage. Thanks.
 
I survived similar scenario by popping Steel from Liberalism. Cannons are much more efective against Macemen and Cats ;) But it was close call...
 
I grew to an 8 city empire with one of those captured from the barbs. But that city was across the water and I did not protect it well enough in the long run. I was part of the Hindu block even though I founded Confucianism and Taoism. The Hindus included everyone except Boudica and Mehmed. My issues began when China declared on me even though he was pleased with me. I was able to fight them off eventually with the loss of only my siege weapons, and the Apostolic Palace forced us into peace. When Alex asked me to declare on Boudica, I did so because she had 1 city near my NW border to take and then I was able to fight a phony war from there. But then Mehmed declared and took my city across the water which I had stupidly (in hindsight) built Moai and the Great Lighthouse. I was close to Liberalism (1 turn) and traded away my tech lead so I could research Replaceable Parts and grab Rifling. The Knights were really becoming a problem and the combination of Drafting/Slaving Rifles helped beat down most of the Ottoman advances. But Mehmed had lots of units, and I eventually gave Boudica her city back for peace to keep it away from the Ottomans. This allowed me to kill off all of Mehmed's incoming units and even recapture the GLH city. Then I did a real stupid thing, (go figure):lol:. We kept getting votes for Apostolic leader, I even WON one of the votes. There were very few other votes even put forward. We gave a city Alex lost to Boudica back to him. When the vote screen came up, (it was getting on towards midnight), I thought it said "vote for Apostolic leader", when it actually said "Diplomatic Victory".....I was kinda of tired and clicked on a name right when I realized what the vote was actually for.....oops. Then the IBT was very funny, I had just taken back the GLH city the turn of the vote. I ended turn and BOTH Mao and Alex (my hindu brothers) declare and move stacks into my territory, but we ALL lose to Pacal a DIPLOMATIC LOSS! Not sure if I would have been able to survive it anyway, but.....might have been fun to try!

My biggest mistake was not continuing to REX early. I was worried about crashing my economy more than I probably should have been. And I was never able to secure a source of horses which would have made dealing with incoming siege weapons much easier, along with all the other benefits they can provide.

On to some SG testing I guess!
 
Quick overview. Settled in place and built the GW. Rather than infiltrate with the first GSpy I settled him and stole a lot of techs of Alex along the way. The AI and my tech rate were pretty abysmal through most of the game. Loaded up a save just before 940AD to have another look. I still had 4 turns to CS. Only Alex had Feud (which I stole when he declared on me :)). Also I hadn't long finished the Mids/Parthenon and just about to finish the GLib.

So had Alex declare on me. Had thought of attacking him earlier but with Athens so bad didn't seem much point as there was much better city sites around.

So ended up taking him as a vassal then carried on teching towards Lib with the aim of taking Mil Trad. I was just planning on attacking Pacal (Churchills voluntary vassal) when he offered to be my vassal. Made a big mistake here and agreed. Mistake was he was at war with Boud my supplier of horses (had just started building some currassiers) and was thrown into a war with Boud. So lots of slow troop movement later and vassal number 3 with Boud and horses back speeded up the next wars. With my troops right next to Churchill seemed only right to attack him. 2 cities later and vassal number 4. Pleased to note I had easy access to Mao from 2 fronts so didn't wait to long before starting on him and vassel number 5. This left mehmed who had a huge amount of troops. Not that I didn't by now but did lead to a bit of slow down on my computer when attacking him. Still he fell quickly enough and vassal number 6 leading to a conquest victory 1710AD.
 
You guys are making me feel better. ;) I might be able to pull out a win but I refuse to spend the RL time it would take on such a big map and a loss after making such an effort would be a very bitter pill. The AP (that thing again :rolleyes:) added to my troubles by interrupting my war against Alex, which started off quite well. By the time I could DoW again he had gotten iron from somewhere (unlike me) and his Xbows kept knocking down my maces. Not long after he got knights and then Mao DoWed me. I was still overall tech leader but my lead was shrinking as others with bigger empires were catching up. My biggest mistake was lack of aggressive REXing, especially to the north to get gold, horses, and especially iron. Congrats to the winners on this tough one! (And may I again plead that maps with lots of land tiles be played on Small? :))
 
Well, well, my game seems peaceful compared to yours. My main problem was that the whole game only I made wars (and quite a lot of them). Well, Mehmed attacked Churchill while I was growing after finishing Alexander - and that was late, about 650AD - this war took them about 4 centuries. So I was growing and they were out of competition because of war. But Boudica and Mao were pacifists and both had big empires. Pascal was not worth mentioning, barbs and jungle made his life miserable. Actually I made two wars with him, both of them because opportunity was too good to miss. Once I razed a city which he just captured from barbs, and second time I found 2 his Workers tempting.
I had 8 good cities and started to think about real war. Checked techs, and to my suprise I was almost as good as Boudica and Mao, and gaining. Then second suprise - no one was even close to Lib. So I started Lib path, Paper, Education, almost finished Lib when recalled something about "slings". Hmm, yeap, they all were far away to Lib. So I spent some time researching Gunpowder and Chemistry.
And that moment Mehmed attacked me. Fortunately I started building army some time ago (from finishing Alex to start Lib path I'm not sure I built even 3 units). Mehmed was tricky, attacked by 2 stacks from two directions and I was sloppy, I realized that he has second and bigger stack only when it appeared just front of my city walls, and it was good city I hardly could afford to loose.
I took Steel from Lib, upgraded 2 or 3 Cats, and sent troopers as fast as I could. The result was that both of his stack attacked simultaneously and great part of my army was in move. He synchronized it very good for AI.Both attacks failed, barely but failed. I finished his stacks, had a little time to heal and then came another stack, and another, and another... I gained lots of exp that way ;)
To be continued...
 
I'm glad I managed to finish and submit my game before leaving for vacations today. :D

In the first spoiler post, I had 7 cities, including Athens but economy was in bad shape. It took me 400 years to take Sparta and Corinth and leave Alex with 2 junk cities, getting Construction for peace. That was the end of my wars...against the AI. :)

My great spy was infiltrated on China and was able to steal Monarchy, CoL, HBR and Drama early on. Not brilliant, but helpful nonetheless.

Over the next 1000 years I was able to expand to 20 cities, 9 of them taken from barbs (a couple resettled in better locations). I stick to my plans of cottage spamming my lands, and that investment eventually paid off. By 1400 I had a huge tech lead over the AI's, which were too busy fighting each other to pay attention of the poor Zulu civ. ;)

I flirted with the idea of getting something like MilTrad from Lib (to grab more land by force), but had no horses and enough land taken from barbs, so I picked Democracy instead (1400AD). Running Rep, Emancipation and FS, my tech rate skyrocketed.

One minor setback was caused by the AP. I got distracted and lost Athens, reassigned to the Greek as I wasn't a full member yet. But I was already converting all my cities to the AP religion (hindu), to gain control of the diplo scene and for the hammers in buildings - I was eventually elected AP resident to stop the nonsense. :king:

Civ4ScreenShot0098.JPG

I was lucky enough to be able to keep a minimum military power throughout the game, until I launched the spaceship, when I spammed troops just out of boredom while the ship was travelling. It was fun to check the power graph screen.

Civ4ScreenShot0099.JPG

I can't recall of a recent space game where I had such a heavy-cottage approach. 118 mature towns in the end.

Civ4ScreenShot0100.JPG

Almost forgot to mention finish date - check it out!

Civ4ScreenShot0101.JPG

The game was really hard in the BC's (barely got the GW before almost losing capital defended by a lone warrior) but turned out to be a walk in the park in the AD's.

Now to some well deserved vacations (about to visit srad's homeland ;)), see you all in a couple weeks. :cool:
 
First spoiler is here.

I started to lose my focus after 1 AD. General plan of attack was finish off Alex - captured two of his cities: Thebes to the east with gems+cows and another city with pigs and a few hills. I also settled an additional 5 cities to get my total up to a more respectable 11. One new one along the southern coast with lots of food is my NE city, another one down there for cottages. Then another 3 along my western border claiming the resources in the jungle. These have been designated as production cities, especially the riverside one with lots of green tiles which will be my future IW city. (flat tiles with workshops > hills IMO).

The years up until 1500 AD were very peaceful, slowly working through Education, part Liberalism and on to Chemistry, while building infrastructure including OxU in Bulawayo (floodplain city north of capital). At 1500 AD I took a big break to think about the future. I reasoned that at this level, going for victory with only my 11 cities might be risky, especially since I’m really aiming for diplo and my influence is a bit limited at present. So I grabbed Liberalism early and took Steel for the free tech. Ooops - no iron for cannon! Luckily there is an unclaimed iron amongst the desert near my friends Churchil and Mao, so I quickly send out a settler and found a city directly on top of it.

My HE city (city #2 just east of the capital) is producing cannon almost every other turn. Helpful Churchill even researches Rifling for me, which he trades to me. This is a pretty unbeatable combo versus Mehmed’s outdated units - so I think! When I declare with what I think is a pretty big stack, I find it gets decimated by Mehmed’s outrageously enormous bigger stack! :sad:. So, the war is off to a bad start (all my fault, a spy for recon would have saved me so much hassle, no OB since the heathen buddhist hates my hindu self). Slowly I turn the tide, playing a bit more carefully, and bribing Mao into the war.

The war is going swimmingly after the initial frustrations - but then Churchill joins in and capitulates Mehmed. A real mistake here on my part, as I had the opportunity to bribe Churchill to make peace with Mehmed, but I chose not to. I actually had the option to capitulate Mehmed myself for many turns, but chose not to because then all bets are off as far as preventing Churchill from declaring on me himself. (Even though he is friendly, I don’t think it matters if I have a vassal). With that, my hopes for a UN diplomatic victory are out the window (unless I want to take on the giant Churchill). So my focus now is claim as much land as possible, state property workshop everything and shoot for space.

Boudica is the most backwards AI and has no friends, so she is next on my hit list. This war went reasonably well, though I stalled a bit when I split my stack when I shouldn’t have. A made a major blunder when I misclicked with my super-medic impi to attack Boudica’s city. Her light brown colour and our yellow colour were just too similar for my eyes :sad:. Again, Churchill comes along to spoil the party. And again I make a blunder - this time taking peace with Boudica 1 turn away from Industrialization. I learn the tech, and then see that with all my city taking, I do not have aluminium. Gah!

At this point I’m still feeling pretty secure. All AI except Churchill are pretty backward, and I have a decent tech lead on Churchill. Time to gear up the economy, and properly develop my IW city + one other city in anticipation of the big SS Engine builds (watermills > workshops since I’d switched to Emancipation). My early city placement comes back to haunt me, as I only had 1 production city (IW city) that was riverside and could build a levee :(.

Churchill catches up... WAY to fast for my liking. At the same time I learn Fusion and still have Ecology+Genetics to go, he only has Fusion left. The only way I won this game I think is because of reasonably effective end-game production management that had all my parts built before Churchill, despite us both having all the necessary techs. Spaceship Victory in 1943 AD. Quite a nail biter! Thanks DS for a real tough, but enjoyable challenge :goodjob:
 
Firstly I had problems with crashes so my save would be rejected anyway.

Secondly I gave up around 1505 AD about 10 turns after the Chinese declared war on me. They had Knights, cho-ku's and War elephants. I had no Iron. no Horses and gunpowder was still about 20 turns away (I really needed pikemen). There was nothing I could do to stop them, even longbows mostly died. Didn't help that I have no idea where my 2nd GG went, I could've settled him and had two cities pumping out double-promotion troops. :(

Never got above 20% science on the slider but was still just about at tech parity thanks to trades/thieving/slower AI tech pace than most of the other posts in this & the first thread. This map seemed freaking huge to me, 6 empires (since i wiped out the Greeks) had around 110 cities between them :eek:

It was going alright, I was getting on really well with everyone, except the Chinese (even though I shared the religion) and the Celts (who declared war on England, then since everyone was a Hindu except them, they got dogpiled & capitulated to the English) so I thought I was OK with just one AI to worry about, but the lack of Iron = end of game. Oh and I've never played the Mayans before, are they always such teching monsters? Smallest empire but most advanced...
 
@adrianj

Yep Mehmed is a big troop spammer. I know when I attacked him I couldn't see all of his troops but including his siege must have had in excess of a 100 units in his sod. Possibly a slight exaggeration but I don't think so.
 
After seeing who I was up against I had a quick look at the personality spreadsheet someone did. Mehmed has the joint highest unitprob of anyone so is indeed likely to have huge stacks. I assumed the Celts would as everyone say they are a bunch of nutters, but this was not so.
 
...it is continued.
I forgot to mention that Mao attacked me the same turn as Mehmed. I was terryfied, but I suppose Mao just wanted to trick the heathen. Next turn there was AP voting to stop the war among faithful. Me, Mao, Churchil and Boudica were Jude, Mehmed and Pascal buddist. So our war was just two turn long. Good for me.
War with Mehmed was going on and on. I wasn't able to go for offensive. We didn't have common border, he was far away. I managed to send small strike force to the city he captured from Churchill. 3 or 4 Cannons, 2 Pikmens, 3-4 Musketmen, 3-4 Grenadiers. After 10 turns I razed it and pillaged several hamlets. Meantime Mehmed got Gunpowder, his UU and Curiassiers.
He decided that getting his stacks annihilated is pointless and tried to attack from flank. Good move, my cities near Churchil were weakly defended. So I sent troopes there along with Workers. It was empty land there, so I had to build roads during move. I stopped his first stack on the flank, but I lost few Grenadiers. I got Rifles and started to upgrade units and produce them in quantity. We fought few skirmishes and one major battle on those empty hills. I lost 2 units, he about two dozens.
And then Mao declared on me, seriously this time, together with his vassal Pascal. My striking force was back an upgraded. I decided to stop war with Mehmed and take some space. 9 cities was not enough for me and they both were close.
So I started to decimate Mao's stacks...
To be continued...
 
Ugh... a brutal defeat (Chinese Spaceship landed 1975AD).

I don't really feel up to talking about it. :cry:

The WORST thing that happened? One of my mines popped IRON. "Bad? No, that's GOOD" you might say.... but I say BAAAAAAD. After getting rifles and building a stack and getting steel (and finding I can't build cannons because no iron), I decided my only chance is to take the iron from Mehmed's closest city.

Right after declaring war, THATS when the iron popped in my own land.

Sheesh... the whole rest of the game was me and Mehmed fighting over those three cities up there. Back and forth. Man... that dude can build a LOT of units. I kill't over 60 of his cavalry, over 60 of his SAM Inf, and 30 Paratroopers.

Well... OK, Churchill got opportunistic and took a couple cities (former greek ones) before Mao stopped the war via the AP.

Mao and Churchy got into some nuclear pyrotechnics with each other, too. But didn't matter. Ol Mehmed was going to fight me to the grave... his or mine. I was kind of glad it finally ended. I had 7 cities that I settled or had taken from barbs or from Mehmed or Alex that were gone from my control by the time it ended. I still had about 20 cities... if I didn't go to war for iron against what was then my best friend, I had a fair shot at a space race or diplo vc. (Iron that I didn't need one turn later. :mad: )

Poop. :nuke:

I knew it was over (i.e. my chances of victory are nil) when in the 2nd (or was it 4th?) war with Mehmed, I used my arty's and reserve units to wipe out his stack that had just taken my city on the DOW turn... only to see another even bigger stack behind the lines.
 
Ouch. I feel your pain, dude. Your perseverence is admirable. This game was a real challenge made even more so by the size of the map.
 
Wow! What a bad luck. And I say it's divine punishment for being a way too good. When iron popped on my land I was happy to use it for Pikemen, not Cannons. :p
Reading about failures of such champions as kcd_swede I'm starting to think I was extremely lucky. Mehmed in my game had lots of troops , but I have been killing them in about twenty units stacks. I annihilated 5 to 10 such stacks and he was willing to negotiate. ;)
 
Over the next 1000 years I was able to expand to 20 cities, 9 of them taken from barbs (a couple resettled in better locations).

I'd love to know how you managed this. I was stuck at size 5/6 cities for a while, with no religion, so I had to go to Monarchy (which the AI's were nowhere near), in order to increase my happy cap. I couldn't really get past 8 cities at size 5 or 6 if I wanted to have the tech slider above 0%. once I got monarchy, and calendar (+2 happiness from dye & sugar) I was able to grow up towards 10-11, and then religion gave me even more space. But by the time this happened, I could only expand to around 12 cities & the rest of the map was full.
 
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