BOTM 50 First Spoiler to 1AD

[Htadus]

Wow, after reading all this, all I want to say is "what the?". Wow guys, very impressive games are going on.

Very genorous start indeed and all 3 happy metals? Sweet. I am not sure if I made a bad choice or not by ignoring the Gem. But I had my second city placed as most of you to claim gems and gold. And the third to claim silver and elephants. After that I can not remember.

I must get back to the grand plan and see how to tech Astro (why astro? for 25% science? on this map) and 17 cities by 10 AD. So much to learn. Gread job Tachy, BTW.

 

[Manco Capac]

I am not sure if I made a bad choice or not by ignoring the Gem.

That is a good call...about how good it is. I was wondering if I did the right choice when moving to get gems asap, my thinking process was about teching as fast as possible until maybe Horseback Riding. Yes, I didn't know about the horses existence, but I knew where I could find it: north. And, I had suspicion right from start we were in the middle of the map. That start was weird to me.
OTOH, I lost PH power and horses. Not considering I never knew iron was around .

In addition, working gems allowed me to grow to second pop just in time for working an improved corn.

Another reason, a bad one, was authority's call; I remember Kossin saying he would move his capital for sure if he was about to get workable gems.
Obviously, flatland gems >>> gold.

I know a high commerce tile for a second city isn't that bad, but I wanted to get as fast as possible, because it is the limiting factor for a fast conquest.

 

[justjohn]

why astro? for 25% science? on this map.

I didn't see anyone else talking about Astronomy, so I guess this question was directed to me?

I am thinking about a diplo victory, and Astronomy is me usual path there. It is generally faster than through chemistry (unless you can trade for engineering or similar), and the 25% boost might shave off a couple more turns spearheading to Mass Media.

 

[srad]

17 cities, 118 pop, ...

Oha, impressive! (do you know how 'impressive' is pronounced after fragging 3 opponents in a row with the railgun in Quake III? )

 

[Htadus]

That is a good call...about how good it is. I was wondering if I did the right choice when moving to get gems asap, my thinking process was about teching as fast as possible until maybe Horseback Riding. Yes, I didn't know about the horses existence, but I knew where I could find it: north. And, I had suspicion right from start we were in the middle of the map. That start was weird to me. Yes the horses were a surprise
OTOH, I lost PH power and horses. Not considering I never knew iron was around .I would like to know how much of that start is cooked and ....

In addition, working gems allowed me to grow to second pop just in time for working an improved corn. The reason I did not choose gems were because of the faster worker and first settler and I would not be using the gem during that time. My capital was a good expansion base and my WGG&S city built the first library and ran 2 scientist and was my main science city untill cottages took off

Another reason, a bad one, was authority's call; I remember Kossin saying he would move his capital for sure if he was about to get workable gems.I can see how much more significant it is at the higher levels. This was noble was it not
Obviously, flatland gems >>> gold. I am not too sure about that. The way i see it since I do like hammers in the capital to build things with, I might as well use 1 less hammer and more currency of gold. But I get what you are saying.

I know a high commerce tile for a second city isn't that bad, but I wanted to get as fast as possible, because it is the limiting factor for a fast conquest.

Make very good sense.

I didn't see anyone else talking about Astronomy, so I guess this question was directed to me?

I am thinking about a diplo victory, and Astronomy is me usual path there. It is generally faster than through chemistry (unless you can trade for engineering or similar), and the 25% boost might shave off a couple more turns spearheading to Mass Media.

Thanks for the explanation. This is one of my weaknesses; avoiding Astro.

 

[ZPV]

Goal: Space.

Where did I settle? 2E1N on the grass-forest-hill, with a whole bunch of floodplains.
Tech path: Agriculture-AH-Bronze Working-Wheel-Pottery-Writing.
I built a second scout very early on, so I managed to explore the whole map and meet everyone quickly.
Yes, I cottaged the capital. At 5BC, I had 7 villages and 3 hamlets within 10 turns of being villages in the capital alone.
Yes, the second city was the peachy gold+gems+wheat+stuff site.
Lincoln researched Alphabet fairly early, so I traded CoL to him to get it.

In 800BC, I Oracled Civil Service (built in Gold/Gems city) with 6 cities, amazed at how slow the AI tech pace is.

No Pyramids. No Great Library (because I didn't get Marble until so late it's not worth it, among other reasons).

Education came in at 110BC (without a lightbulb - my only GP so far has built an Academy in the capital)
By 5BC I'd founded and completed initial development in two further cities, for 8 total.
Oxford is due in three turns; currently at 100% gold I make some 175gpt; even after whipping my universities, I have 55 population, with 14 in the capital..

I have a lot of forges for the +3 happiness (Metal Casting and Calendar for the were priorities after CS), so building for the next phase should be easier than normal: knocking over AI cities defended by Archers, with Knights.
It won't take long to research to Guilds, and Wang Kon has already revolted out of Slavery, making him the easiest first target.
There haven't been any wars yet, but that will change, as I hope to conquer the north as I tech up to the industrial era, to start preparing for the stage where I'll want thousands of beakers per turn.

 

[-Asterix-]

Wow... Some amazing games going on here! How late did you actually build the Oracle, justjohn?

My initial plan was to REX peacefully with no barbs around. Expansive + Creative traits called for SE with those cheap granaries and libraries and that's exactly what I had in mind. No cottages this time! Also was hoping to find stone to build Mids for Repre.

3000BC:

Settled on the PH 1E to grab the corn. If I had been lucky enough to find those gems close by I would have went for them but now I had to leave that spot for the second city. Capital grew into a nice food + hammers city to build some shiny wonders for me, especially after horses and iron were found. Seeing the stone early locked my plans with Mids.

Initial techs were Agri -> The Wheel -> Pottery -> AH. Agri was a no-brainer with the corn around but after that I chose TW + Pottery over AH. Reason for this was that AH would have come too late to speed up second city by more than 1-2 turns. Now I could road the way to that nice gems-gold-wheat-stone site before settler was out and build granaries from the beginning instead of useless warriors.

Initial builds were worker -> warrior -> settler -> granary. Warrior was timed to get finished while growing to 2 pop and early Pottery allowed early granary. As there was no threat from barbs, warriors were useless until cities grew to happy cap. 2nd city was founded 2900bc at the mentioned Sampo-powered spot.

10AD:

As there was plenty of free land around with lots of flood plains, I spammed out settlers and workers until I decided that 14 is enough for BCs. 14th city was settled in 290BC. Each city started with granaries whipped at 2 pop and then continued with libraries to work 2 Repre-powered scientists quite early.

Instead of the usual Oracle-route I decided to totally skip religious crap and went for Writing -> Math -> Currency with Masonry somewhere to build Mids in the capital. Decided to skip Oracle and concentrate on REX + Mids instead (probably a mistake). Oracle didn't go unusually late so nothing like "Oracling Edu" seemed to be possible according to my game. Besides Mids I've built also HG for +13 pop, GLib and NE in the capital this far.

Haven't had diplo problems, though Vicky and Alex have their hands full but I'm hoping they go for Wang who is outside the buddhist block with Peter. No wars up to 10AD (probably another mistake). Trades for some minor techs and gold have been good but nobody wants to give away stuff like Calendar or Construction yet. AIs are rather backwards so this really feels like a monarch or maybe even prince game to me.

Summary:

- 14 cities, 1 settler on the way.
- 84 pop.
- 16 workers to farm all those flood plains.
- 0 cottages, yay.
- 120 bpt @ 0% research from scientists (8 cities with 2 scientists, more coming soon). +82 gpt with GA on, probably around +20 gpt normally. Some 1200+ gold in bank. With 100% research would have around 300 bpt and -140 gpt without GA.
- Music, CS, Philo, MC, now researching Paper.
- Mids, HG, GLib, NE. Parthenon coming in 1 turn.
- Most cities have granary, library, courthouse and barracks. Now building forges to hammer-rich cities.
- Almost whole map explored.

 

[justjohn]

Wow... Some amazing games going on here! How late did you actually build the Oracle, justjohn?

According to my game log, it was built 305BC, the same turn as I finished researching Paper. A bit late, of course, but as I wrote, I had more or less complete control since the AIs were so late at researching Priesthood in my game. (Strangely enough.)

 

[Greeder]

My Oracle date was also late (440BC), but what was most strange - I got Priesthood 650 BC from trade, I didn't intend to built Oracle. And at 650BC I saw that it is still not built, so I couldn't resist. At least 2 other civs had Priesthood, well they had other aims I suppose.

 

[-Asterix-]

According to my game log, it was built 305BC, the same turn as I finished researching Paper. A bit late, of course, but as I wrote, I had more or less complete control since the AIs were so late at researching Priesthood in my game. (Strangely enough.)

That would be very late even for noble and below, amazing that it can happen at this difficulty level. You definitely had good control over it and one couldn't wait that long without knowing what techs AIs have and research. If I recall right, Oracle in my game went around T120 (1000BC). At that point, only 1 or 2 AIs had Priesthood which is quite low for an emperor game.

 

[neilmeister]

Humbaba ate everyone in The Neutral Zone then wandered off into BOTM51 map...

Aaaargh, is that why he keeps showing up in my testing!

 

[pixiejmcc]

Well this thread has proved fascinating reading... What on earth is "Mids"? I'm guessing from the context that it is a great wonder but I can't for the life of me work out which.

 

[ZPV]

Well this thread has proved fascinating reading... What on earth is "Mids"? I'm guessing from the context that it is a great wonder but I can't for the life of me work out which.

The Pyramids.

 

[Orion071]

I decided to SIP. Turns out to be a pretty good decision with the Horse, Iron and Copper in the BFC. I went Worker first, then another Scout so I could meet all of the neighbors and scout out the land. My opening techs were Ag -> AH -> Wheel -> Pottery -> BW.

I was so focused on the glorious Floodplains to the west (I'm such a sucker for Floodplains), that I missed the awesome Stone, Wheat, Gems, Gold, 2 Oasis city-site just to the NE. I had to settle that as my 4th city and stretched out my economy a little more than I'd like at the beginning. The religions were slow in coming, so I went down the religious route to Priesthood and the Oracle. If I had grabbed the Gems/Gold site first, I might have tried to do a CS-slingshot, but instead I chickened out and took Metalcasting instead.

Everyone else seems crowded in their place (except Peter), so I'm not rushing to expand too much. My big problem is remembering to build military. I'm such a peaceful builder that I'm got to remind myself not to fall too far behind in power. Right now I'm 6th, which is a little low.

I'm the runaway leader in tech and land right now, so victory doesn't seem to be in doubt (unless something bizarre happens). I'm Confucian, am I'm trying to convert some AI's to my side. I got Alex (but he's weak) and I'm working on Peter and Zara Yaqob. If things go right, I might try a UN victory, but Space seems most likely for me (my go-to victory anyway).

So, summary at 70 AD. I have 7 cities, I'm just about to finish the Mausoleum next turn, the Great Library is in the works (no one else has Literature yet), and I'm researching Music so I can launch my first Golden Age.

 

[MarleysGh0st]

I settled on the PH, 1E. My first builds were a worker, two warriors and a settler. My first techs were Agriculture, AH, and BW, to exploit the resources already in my territory and to adopt Slavery in preparation for some whipping. I was pleasantly surprised to find horses and copper in my fat cross--this is a nice oasis!

I completed the Oracle in 1325 BC for COL; I was afraid of waiting for the CS sling and losing the wonder to someone else. In 80 BC, I completed the Great Library. COL gave me Confucianism, and a GP went to building the Kong Miao.

Saladin went to war against Victoria in 455 BC, so I attacked Saladin in 375 BC. Alexander didn't like that, so he declared war on me, but he was a bit too far away to actually do anything. I took two of Saladin's border cities and made peace in 245 BC, before he counterattacked and in case Alex showed up on the flank. But Alex was still a no-show and agreed to end the phony war in 155 BC.

So, at 5 BC, I've got six cities of my own and two captured ones. A nice start for me!

 

[timmy827]

Settled 2W on the river. Goal from early on is culture, largely because of RL time constraints...of course I wind up thinking too much in a competitive setting anyways

2nd city the wheat/stone/gold/gems, 3rd a reach far to the north for marble (generating some Oasis maps and noticing that marble is always in the north directed early scouting and paid off). Legendaries will be capital, and 4th and 5th cities (who divide up the rest of the flood plain area). Have Parthenon, Pyraminds, Hanging Gardens, also founded Confu + Christ.

Feeling pretty safe right now with no military. All are Buddhist except Wang, and Alex just declared on him.

Also I've gotten some silly luck, like founding Judaism at 825BC. About that time I traded for Alpha and saw no one had Preisthood, allowing an even sillier ~600BC Oracle->Civil Service. On the other hand I've found it really challenging to manage workers between the legendaries and far-flung supporting cities - the combination of no barbs and the desert patches in Oasis + the marble reach have spread out my 8 cities a lot further than I'm used to.

Still need to found 9th and maybe 10th cities, see if I can win Music and Philo races.

Picture of core cities:

Spoiler :

 

[jesusin]

jesusin, contender. Goal:fastest cultural victory.

Settled 1E. Of course. There is not doubt that's the best option. My Scout checked W first, just in case.

Builds: Worker, Warrior, Warrior, Settler, Worker, Settler.
Techs: Agr, AH, Wri, Alpha.

At 3000BC I am at pop3, doing 10 excess ftp, 4hpt and 10cpt. I am 4 turns away from my first Settler.


At 1900BC I have 5 cities. I am synchronizing the birth of 4 Worker with the turn Alpha is got.
I decide I need no more cities for some time, that way my research will accelerate and Emperor AI is so slow I am not in risk of losing any good site.

My cities are:
- Capital 1E of starting position. Legendary hammer city (lots of culture buildings).
- 02 N with Wheat, oasis, gold, gems, stone. To sustain early rexing.
- 03 in the far E, oasis, 11FP, 1hill. Perfect GPFarm.
- 04 W with rice, silver, 10FP and many hills. Cottage and WW city.
- 05 in the far N, for Marble.


1500BC I start Pyramids, key WW in this food rich map. I see nobody has PH, so I get Oracle too for CoL (maybe too conservative a play). By 1000BC I have finished both.

1000 BC Stats: 5 cities, 29 pop, 7workers, 6units(6War), 3 strategic resources, 3 luxury resources, 2 health resources, 0 great persons, 2 world wonders, 0 national wonders, food/production/commerce=76-43-113, 62 sustainable beakers per turn, 38 culture per turn, 16 great person points per turn, 400 gold, 5Gra, Lib. 3 religions, 3/5 cottages used, 17 Techs: BW, Alpha, CoL, no Poly. 0 civs killed. 7 hours played.

Soon after that I get a GS for Academy and 3 new cities with 7FP each.

Parthenon, HG and MoM come later. I am researching slowly cause I don't want to haire scientist, in order to pop all GA in the future.

1AD Stats: 10 cities, 100 pop, 11workers, 10units (1Swo), 5strategic resources, 5luxury resources, 6health resources, 3 great persons, 5 world wonders, 0 national wonders, food/production/commerce=263-77-261, 78 sustainable beakers per turn, 88 useful culture per turn, 91 great person points per turn, 100 gold. 4 religions. 9/9 cottages used, 25 Techs: Music, CoL, IW, CoL, no MC, no Curr, no CS, almost Philo. 0 civs killed. 12,5 hours played. 14rel*city, 2temples, 0cath

I am in for a good cultural game.

 

[Falabello]

1 AD:

- 9 cities (5 founded, 4 Russian) - pop 42 / treasury 263 / -1gpt at 0% - Feudalism (11 turns)

The beginning:

- Scout NE / Settler (Hills NW)
- Worker / Barracks / Warrior / Warrior / Settler
- AH / Wheel / Agric / Pott / BW / Myst / Medit / Priest / Masonry / Math...
1ª- Yasodharapura 1W (3950 BC) - pig and sampo

Next Cities:

2ª- Hariharalaya W (2450 BC) - rice and silver
3ª- Angkor Thom SE (2000 BC) - cow, corn, horse, eleph and spices
4ª- Angkor Wat E (1575 BC) - corn and gems
5ª- NagaraJayasri NE (1075 BC)

Observations:

- I met all 7 AI's but I saw only Russian Empire (around 2800 BC)
- DOWed on Peter (550 BC), but made everything wrong and got nothing . So I had to arm myself again and lost a precious time (precious turns) . DOWed again (125 BC) and at 1 AD Peter was almost dead.

Intencion:
Domination (If possible for me around 1500 AD…)