BOTM 52 Final Spoiler - Game Submitted or Abandoned

[DynamicSpirit]

BOTM 52 Final Spoiler

So how did the game go, in the end?

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[PattonTwo]

I'll add only this to my longer comments in the first spoiler (where I would appreciate any feedback from those actually winning this game =) to add that England finally obtained Knights around 250 AD and went on a quick rampage through my 4 pathetic cities officially ending my game in 475 AD.

Was a good learning game though, I need to figure out how to get my 2nd city up sooner (not sure how yet) and improve my city placement.

I did have one question about trying to bulb Liberalism. I obtained about 5 GS before being finished off however I couldn't use any of them to even tech philosophy which was listed first on the tech bulbing path to liberalism. I kept being asked to tech alphabet, metal casting, math (I think was one) but no philosophy. I know I've bulbed philosophy in another game so why all the problems this time? I'm sure I am missing something simple.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The list of techs that a great person will bulb is here. http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/greatpeople_tech.php. The tech that he'll bulb is the first one on the list that you are able to research. The problem will be that you either hadn't researched one of the prerequisites to philosophy, or you'd researched something that opened up something higher on the scientist's list. Note that according to the list, alphabet has moved up above philosophy in the list in BtS, so is preferred over philosophy in BtS, where philosophy would be preferred in vanilla or warlords.

Well done on getting so far btw. Deity is always a very hard level.

 

[Mylene]

1255 domination

Spoiler :

Ty for this fun map.

 

[srad]

Impressive Mylene!

Some questions; I'm eager to learn something ;-)

Did you build Knights before you get Cuirassiers?
With how many did you start the war?
Did you built Oxford? If yes, when?
What did you take from Lib?
Were you first to Music?

(ups, bunch of questions )

 

[Mylene]

/wave
No knights, i dun go guilds line

~20 Curis, Lizzy was not very strong and i probably could have started with less..but with more i managed vassaling her without pauses.

Nopes, i will never build Unis/Ox when Curi rushing and not being PHI, growth is needed for whipping..even with PHI, only in rare cases unless i see very strong AIs that will require Cavalry or maybe even better later.

I always try taking Mil. Tradition from Lib

Nopes, no chance for music cos i traded away Aestetics and Literature..too low commerce, was needed for catching up. Often it is very good getting music first thou.

 

[srad]

Thank you!

Did you built an Academy with one of the GS or did you use them all for bulbing? Guess bulbing - first for Philo for trading?

And a final question : Forges before the Cuirassiers whipping started?

 

[Orion071]

I rage quit sometime in the early ADs. From my 1 AD spoiler, I was completely boxed in with 5 cities and I didn't even have Iron for my UU. I teched up to Guilds and declared on England with Phants, Axemen and Catapults. I was able to take Coventry to secure some Iron, but England had way too many units and about a 3 to 1 city advantage. I had no chance.

Clearly I'm not a Deity player...

 

[Mylene]

@srad no Academy, i was desperate for bulbing Philo with my 2nd great person, cos i got a great priest first.
And yep, one or 2 AIs already had it
But i needed Paci. We were surrounded by AIs that love going towards Lib and Music, made trading harder than normal.

Forges before Curis yep..i played with few workers (maybe 5 for 8 cities), and had many forests still for chopping them when most improvements been done.

 

[zamint3]

@Mylene:

One question: How did you vassal the Ottoman and the Aztec?

 

[pixiejmcc]

The list of techs that a great person will bulb is here. http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/greatpeople_tech.php. The tech that he'll bulb is the first one on the list that you are able to research. The problem will be that you either hadn't researched one of the prerequisites to philosophy, or you'd researched something that opened up something higher on the scientist's list. Note that according to the list, alphabet has moved up above philosophy in the list in BtS, so is preferred over philosophy in BtS, where philosophy would be preferred in vanilla or warlords.

Well done on getting so far btw. Deity is always a very hard level.

In AZ's videos when he mouses over one of a great person in the tech screen it reveals the list of priority techs. BUFFY doesn't seem to have this so he must have a slightly different mod. Looks v useful though.

Gratz indeed Mylene. This was a blummin hard game.

 

[pixiejmcc]

@Mylene:

One question: How did you vassal the Ottoman and the Aztec?

Looked like galleons and cavs. You can tend to rely on the Aztecs to be backward and fairly easy to rollover. Not sure about the Ottomans though.

 

[Mylene]

I started shipping my Curis into Galleons while teching Rifling (Astro was first).
Mehmed asked me to join his war against Monty, accepting got me open borders with him
Soo i landed my Curis on Ottoman coast, gathered enuf for rushing one of Monty's cities, and in there upgraded em to Cavs

 

[zamint3]

I started shipping my Curis into Galleons while teching Rifling (Astro was first).
Mehmed asked me to join his war against Monty, accepting got me open borders with him
Soo i landed my Curis on Ottoman coast, gathered enuf for rushing one of Monty's cities, and in there upgraded em to Cavs

Looking at the mini map I see only one of your cities on that continent.
Did you burn the rest or how did you get them to accept vassalage?

 

[Mylene]

Gifted them back after capturing and vassaling.

 

[srad]

Did you try conquest or did you have other reasons to give cities back?

 

[Mylene]

Faster finishing date, takes too long for them coming out of revolt.
I calculated that i'd pass domination limit without keeping them.

 

[Yamps]

1764 AD diplo

Game dates from the log and some comments:

Before Liberalism

Spoiler :

3975 BC settled on PH
3600 BC Agri
2775 BC AH
2225 BC Pottery

1700 BC Oracle gone in far away land

1000 BC Writing
675 BC BW
525 BC Hunting
305 BC Aesthetics
290 BC Masonry & Poly - trade
260 BC first GS - Academy
215 BC Literature
155 BC Priesthood

110 BC chopped the Glib
95 BC Hammy gifts Metal Casting!
95 BC Alpha - trade
5 BC CoL
10 AD Math - trade
55 AD Meditation

55 AD Tao gone in far away land
100 AD lot's of failure gold from Parthenon
115 AD GS born
130 AD Philosophy bulb - switch to Pacifism (the entire continent was Jewish)

130 AD Fishing - I kept the treb bulb line open for a long time. At this point I finally decide to go for Liberalism and Cuirrassier rushing.

145 AD HBR, Drama, Monarchy, Currency, Sailing, IW, Calendar, Monotheism - Philosophy sellout
190 AD GS - 1/3 for the 2 for Edu 1 for Liberalism plan
235 AD Civil Service
250 AD Bure + HR civic switch
310 AD Paper
445 AD bulbed Education (400 AD and 430 AD GS)
460 AD Compass - trade
490 AD Liberalism -> 505 AD Nationalism

Situation at 505 AD right after Liberalism:

Spoiler :

This was a very tight race for Liberalism. They were all after it and I only got Compass for Education!

Overview of the land.

Closer look.

I packed the cities tightly to really use the available tiles. The cities waren't destined for much growth anyway, I planned to whip them down constantly from 6 -> 3 and 4 -> 2 while preparing for war.

City dates: 3975BC, 2825BC, 2350 BC, 1900 BC, 1625 BC, 975 BC, 470 BC, 200 BC.

War preparation period

Spoiler :

505 AD Theo, Music, Machinery -trade
520 AD Feudalism, Engineering, Optics -trade

I had to give Liberalism to all of them and Nationalism to Will to get this.

535 AD OR+Slavery

I wasted a turn or two building universities. No time for that here.

715 AD Free Religion -diplomatic reasons
715 AD Military Tradition
850 AD Gunpowder - started cuirrasier whipping

860AD Archery - hmm, I wanted some LBs. Monty went into war mode (against me by my estimate) and Isabella didn't like me either due to some trades with her worst enemy Hammurabi before I even met her.

At this point I was whipping cuirrassiers, aiming to attack somebody when I get ~30 of them. However as turns went on, I realized that I won't be able to conquer anybody on the continent. They were all advancing too fast, getting close to rifling. :/

1000 AD Printing Press -trade
1010 AD Astro -trade
1040 AD Guilds -trade
1090 AD Banking
1160 AD Chemistry (got 1GS for the partial bulb)

1250 AD defensive pact with Will
1255 AD Isabella DoWs, using a single galleon

I refused to pay 1600 gold in tribute and she went to war mode. I saw her coming and sunk that galleon before it landed any units. Willhem was very advanced at this point, with rifles and cavalry. Isabella still mediaval, but teching fast.

So...not much else to do but to invade the good old backward Montezuma and his Ottoman vassal.

1310 AD barb city near Monty land taken
1310 Rifling
1315 AD another barb city on that island taken, base for war operations and troop upgrades established.

War

Spoiler :

1350 AD DoW Monty and Mehmed

I attacked with 20 curries and 7 cavs. It was a difficult war, there were a few hundred medieval units to deal with. The first attack wave didn't work that good, I had to reatreat back to the barb island. He did lose a lot of units though and I got my GG medic chariot. Upgraded more curries and moved back in.

1475 AD Will signs peace with Isabella
1480 AD peace it is with Izzy

1485 AD Hammy is the first civ to build the Apollo

1495 AD Constitution -trade (Isabella)
1515 AD Democracy -trade (Isabella)
1515 AD Isabella gets the Cristo Wonder - just for reference

1520 AD switch back to Bure (1470 AD Nationalism to get a few rifles and GG defenders)
1605 AD Monty is dead

1610 AD Key date for my game. Isabella builds the UN and gives me a clear and simple win option. Will, Hammurabi and Liz were all friendly to me.

My original plan to come back to life against other AI was to use espionage. 22 cities can easilly get ~2000 EP/turn from whipped espionage buildings, hired spies and espionage slider. With a proper setup, one EP translates to at least 5 beakers. That's effectively 10k bpt. I'd gift my old border city right next to my capital to get the city culture bonus along with the stationary spy, capital proximity, state religion and espionage spending bonuses.

Not a foolproof plan of course. It would still most likely involve uncertain and tedious modern wars at tech parity to prevent the AI space attempts. I'd most likely play for space victory in this case.

Instead of doing all that, I stopped whipping espionage buildings and took the clear diplo path to victory.

1645 AD the Ottomans were finally out as well.
1645 AD Defensive pacts with Hammurabi, Liz and Will to be safe from Isabella

Finish

Spoiler :

...growing cities...

1762 AD UN win
1764 AD One...more...turn!

Foreign relations at the end of he game. If it were Will to build the UN, I'd have to play the espionage game.

AI tech situation at the end of the game.

@Mylene

Great game!

What was your Liberalism -> MT date? Also, at what date did you get the Oracle?

 

[Mylene]

1475BC Oracle (i know i know )
470BC Great Library
310AD Lib
610AD DoW on Lizzy, 670 Capitulation

 

[Greeder]

I survived to the end. Liz won Culture at 1860 AD. I consider it success I had 7 cities, lost 2 to Liz's culture, 2 to Monty at the end of game. Hamm recaptured them and gave me them back.
I survived deity!! Maybe I could get ambulance from it