BOTM 57 First Spolier - to 1AD

[Folket]

I played the adventure save.

I think I made misstake and not rush the other continent. Egypt had a very weak army early on. I have lost 2 warriors and a scout that was exploring but other then that I do not seem to have problems defending my cities.

At 150 BC I have 5 cities and 60 bpt at 30%. will have education in 10 turns and then I will go towards the bonus in capital civic. I have done things very unfocused. I build the pyramids and is using representation.

I'm very confused at what I'm doing. Will try for a space race but might go on domination in modern era if I do not feel confident in my research.

 

[kcd_swede]

I played the adventure save.

I think I made misstake and not rush the other continent. Egypt had a very weak army early on. I have lost 2 warriors and a scout that was exploring but other then that I do not seem to have problems defending my cities.

At 150 BC I have 5 cities and 60 bpt at 30%. will have education in 10 turns and then I will go towards the bonus in capital civic. I have done things very unfocused. I build the pyramids and is using representation.

I'm very confused at what I'm doing. Will try for a space race but might go on domination in modern era if I do not feel confident in my research.

Just curious... how did you make use of the great people?

 

[Folket]

I built an acadamy and settled the other two.

 

[kcd_swede]

I built an acadamy and settled the other two.

Hmmm... I think you would get more beakers by settling the GSci and using your next one to build the academy, but that maybe depends if you are able to get into representation quickly (Pyramids) or not.

 

[Jastrow]

Well, I tried something completely different, but I dont think it really worked out. On the plus side, I am still very much alive, and will likely eventually win this game. On the other hand, my tech rate is feeling slow as molasses.

So, I SIP, see sheep and marble, and think to myself that this is a pretty nice production capital, but not one which I can cottage spam. My early exploration for the first 15 turns (while worker is being built, and AH researched, since those were the only two sure moves) did not reveal much in terms of great land...

At this point, I needed to make a decision. My normal course of action is build to 6 cities quickly while doing a sling on the education path (CS is nice, COL more realisitc at this level), and then building oxford, along with an academy in a cottaged beuracracy capital to power research.

So, what is wrong with that plan?
-No cottage tiles for the capital!
-No great second city site found with both food and production to build a library and run scientist for a quick academy.
-No trading partner (we are isolated) to help back-fill techs.
-I am scared of Barbs... I saw the first animal in 3640 (turn 9) and he almost killed my warrior (needed 7 turns to heal) which slowed my exploration. However, from what I have seen so far, the area looks rather open, and Immoratal+isolated+open suggest that a barm swarm might be comming (I now see from other reports that that fear was justified!!)

So, I opt for a completly other plan... Research mining and masonry (The marble also encouraged this path) next, and built the great wall in the capital right after a worker and a warrior. Even after that, the barbs remained a pest in terms of slowing my expansion, but at least they no longer endangered my survival.

Even after that, I did not like the land for an early oxford, and decide to instead beeline astronomy. I did this by oracling MC, and researching towards it while expanding. Problem is that without the techs along the education path (courthouses, beuraucracy, early libraries, etc) research is so slow... I am still miles away from astronomy at 1AD. (25 AD, actually, since I overlooked the date and played one turn to many before stopping to take notes.)

So where am I?

-7 Cities; 89 bpt @ 100; break even @ 50%
-GW, Oracle (MC), Great spy sleeping in capital for GA at some point.
Researching currency now, and no where near astronomy... No COL yet, economy struggling, research slow.

Cities:

1. Capital SIP
2. City to get 1G+Horses (and settled without an excort since it kept contact with capital borders. It also looked like it had coastal acces to another land mass, but it turned out you could only get to two tiles whiht meeting up with ocean)
3. City netting Sheep+other gold+ some FP.
4. City in the north with 2 deer+sheep
5. Clam city in the souther hiles.
6. City to get the rest of the FP and fish in the south.
7. Future national park city, in the forest west of the upper lake, with 9 forrests, two dear and iron.
8. A sheep+spice+flood plane city will be founded in a turn or two.

Even with the GW, the barbs were enough of a pain that I STILL have not scouted the entire continent, so I dont know how big it is. I have revealed all of the eastern edge. Towards the rest, at the norther edge, I have only seen up to where the national park city is. In the middle, I have seen the cite of this comming Sheep+spice city, and in the south, I have just made it around the lake to the west of the Iron.

The area I have scouted could host about 3 more cities in addition to theabove 8, but all 3 would be really bad. That is not enough for a rush to space. Depending how much more of the continent there is out there, I will either continue to space, or be forced to abandon it, and try something else... Diplomacy?? I dont know...

 

[kcd_swede]

It is a very challeenging set-up Jastrow, but it looks to me like you have a handle on things, and a plan (or plans). Good luck in the rest of your game!

 

[Xcalibrator]

I settled in place, but not until after wasting two turns moving north a little and then retreating. I sent forth several fogbusting warriors and figured I could delay settling the horse site in favor of settling up north to get more food for settler pumping. The barbs were relentless, though, so I eventually had to research Archery to save my skin after the horses were rustled by barb hordes. They made it to the gates of Amsterdam but I managed to pump out a couple do-or-die warriors just in time. Once I got archers it was pretty easy to secure and settle the horses site and get chariots.

Techs: Mining, AH, BW, Wheel, Pottery, Hunting, Masonry, Archery, IW, Sailing, Myst, Poly, Math, Aesth, Lit. Currently working on Drama on the way to Music and its Great Artist so I can revolt for free. Plan is to switch to Hered Rule + Slavery + Pacifism with Taoism after I go back for Monarchy and bulb Philo. First Great Sci was used for an academy. Given the paucity of food (after working all the gold hills), Slavery didn't look that attractive. The cities that do have extra food are building settlers or workers, or running scientists.

6 cities, 25 pop: (Delayed) SIP, #2 up north with 2 deer + sheep, #3 NNW on lake/coast with 2 deer, #4 WSW on lake/coast with horse + gold, #5 NNW on lake with sheep + gold, #6 out west on coast by the floodplains. The clams site to the SE is safe from barbs so I haven't settled that yet.

Builds: Worker, then 3 warriors. Withing Mining first, I worked the gold mine once it was ready while waiting for AH to come in. The timing worked well with the worker moving to start the cow pasture just as AH finished. I think(?) this was a good move because the earlier gold really helped with research.

At 40% breakeven, 38 bpt. At 100%, 90 bpt with -39 gpt. Working on my first cottage out by the floodplains city.

No wonders so far, but I'll have the Great Lib in Amsterdam in 10 turns. I belatedly tried for the Oracle, which went BIAFAL 700 BC. Mids went 575 BC, GLH 375. Without stone I didn't want to try for Mids, and GLH didn't look like a good investment on this map given the lack of foreign trade routes--perhaps I'll regret that later. I got some intentional fail gold for the ToA (with the marble bonus).

I've fully explored our continent and see one "breakout" that might be possible with galleys and sacrificial settling but am planning to go for Optics/Astro ASAP via triple bulbing--gonna run lots of scientists with Pacifism in Amsterdam. Not sure on the Grand Plan but I'll probably go for Dom/Con as usual.

 

[neilmeister]

I decided before the start, with an isolated start that I would need the Great Wall. This looks like it was a fantastic idea. I lost a few warriors and 2 settlers to barbs, but that was it. My empire has at most 1 warrior per city.

I have met nobody, but I see a potential to go south.

According to the demographics screen, I am in a bit of trouble with a tiny population compared to some of the monsters, but the other numbers look OK.

 

[Manco Capac]

Let's resume this....wow! WastimeTime...that is awesome tech advancement for an initial bad move. Respect...

Uh...yeah..
I let this game in waiting mode given that supreme bad luck I had with my warriors. As far as I remember, I lost few at decent odds and then I had that sweet twice ~15% losses. Meaning ~2% loss, but two units for making this cooler.

After observing some people from S&T struggling against the wind no matter what and reconsidering my ultra childish reaction the last BOTM, I decided to retake the oars and struggle more against the wind. And I desesperately need to learn Iso. Especially for that horrible Joao II game I offered in S&T.

What I noticed was the greatly slowed down wonder rate. I got TGH around 950 BC (2 people whip ugh). Then I beelined Monarchy for a little synergy with the Oracle that I missed by one turn. Yay! Fail gold time. I did the same for the ToA for a whooping ~600 gold.
I got the Great Library around 50 AD. The same turn a Great Enginneer spawned. Phew...
Lemme guess, either Pacal II or Huayna Capac.

A nice low odd spear spawned and I lost my two 10 XP chariots plus a fortified warrior in forest. Nice. More luck.

Then I was about to conclude the GScientist to fight the GMerchant, but that GEngineer forced me to finishes the GLibrary, then GMerchant at 90%. Hmmm...me like it.
Tempting to get MC for free, but I think it is preferable to keep it for a mass upgrade of chariots (or HA's) into cuirassiers. Now I wonder if I should gamble for the GArtist. 8 turns. Hmmm...

~100-110 bpt now and 5 cities. 2 underdevelopped. GLH and GLib built. Now about to start MC. Way backward I guess.


This time I don't play competitively. Just for fun.

 

[Manco Capac]

. Egypt had a very weak army early on.

I knew it. That early shrine was mighty suspicious in my game.

 

[zamint3]

SIP and 2nd city with fish and horses.

Had a lot of fun with the barbs like the rest of you!
Two spears did cause some trouble.

At 1AD I have the continent spawn busted.
8 cities and two more coming next turn, probably over expanding.

Oracled COL 1240bc and have currency, so now my economy is slowly recovering.

 

[jesusin]

jesusin, contender. Goal: Fastest Cultural Victory.

Settled in place on turn 2.

Spoiler :

And I don't consider this to be a mistake. I only settled when I found a decent 2 food resource location. It just happened to be on the initial spot.
I think settling on the initial spot without having seen the sheep is a suicide at this level.

Worker and AH first, of course.

02 West, with Sheep, Horses and 2 Gold.

Spoiler :

It was a slow-growing city and it all but killed the fish resource S of it. But it was necessary. Why? Because barbs at this level in an empty continent need to be fought early and with a strategic resource. Also, the 2 Gold would sustain a faster expansion.

03 South-East, with Clams and many hills.

Spoiler :

...just because it wouldn't need any protection unit. This city should have been used to pump out Settlers and Workers. I put it to build Pyramids after the WB. That was an important mistake. If I really wanted Pyramids, I should have gone for it seriously. If not, why even start them?

Horses connected T56, they were really needed by then!
Research priorities: AH-Mining-Pottery-Writing-Masonry-PH-Sailing

1000 BC Stats: 4 cities, 12pop, 3workers, 8units(3Cha), 2 strategic resources, 1 luxury resources, 3 health resources, 0 great persons, 0 world wonders, 0 national wonders, food/production/commerce=33-27-45, 28 bpt at breakeven, 10 culture per turn, 0 great person points per turn, 250 gold, 0buildings. 0 religions, 0/0 cottages used, 12 Techs: Wri, PH, Mason, no BW. 0 civs killed. 2.5 hours played.

04 West, in a FP, with Sheep and 7FPs. It will get Legendary, as my GPFarm.
Oracle 900BC brought CoL and my first religion.
05 South of 04, with sea, 3 lakes, 5 FPs and 1 shared FP. It will get Legendary and will complete Moai to have hammers, since it doesn't have proper hills.
Pyramids gone 600BC.
GS for Academy 500BC.
06 North-West, with Deer, sea, 5 lakes.

Spoiler :

Why settle this before the North 2Deer+Sheep? Because this city with lakes will pay for itself, while the 3 resources one wouldn't provide any commerce and would be a drag for the economy for a long time.

1AD: Christianity gone, CS is in, Parthenon is in. Barbs are under control.

1AD Stats: 6cities,settler, 27pop, 5workers, 12units (4Cha), 2 strategic resources, 1 luxury resources, 3 health resources, 1 great persons, 2 world wonders, 0 national wonders, food/production/commerce=59-44-112, 54bpt at breakeven , 46 culture per turn, 24 great person points per turn, 0 gold. 1 religions. 5/8 cottages used, 17 Techs: CS, Aest, nothing after Maths, no BW. 0 civs killed. 5 hours played. reli/city, temples, caths== 2,0,0

 

[WelshGandalf]

I still disagree why SIP on turn 1 was suicide. It was what I advocated on the pre-game thread too. I don't know the exact rules regarding staring locations but SIP should always give you a decent start. I was fairly confident that food would be revealed.

 

[jesusin]

I don't know the exact rules regarding staring locations but SIP should always give you a decent start.

Are you sure about that?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10435216&postcount=1




I mean... really really sure?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11388133&postcount=1

 

[zamint3]

From the pregame thread:

If the warrior moves west, he can see 2W of the settler, right?

...indeed, he saw the sheep.

 

[keiselhorn13]

This is my first GOTM since I last played a C3C one many years ago, since I started it quite late (1 wk to go) I decided to play it for fun and to get the feel of the challenge and try, perhaps, harder difficulty levels.

This my first BTS experience has been disastrous, but I'm hanging on and having some fun...

I feel a bit better now knowing I'm not the only one that struggled with barbs... indeed I got myself in a situation similar to IvanTheFearsome, surrounded by barbarians with just Amsterdam... well I founded city #2 near the sheep + 2 golds W of capital, taking risks and hoping my archers would hold barb archers (defensive bonus anyone?) but I lost it... I got only 1 archer away from losing Amsterdam, it was close.

Expansion greatly delayed, Founded new 2nd city in a much safer location near oyster corner SE of Amsterdam, barb fights lasted quite a while, but the weird thing is that it suddenly calmed down...

Do barbs in Civ4 have a massive spawn when other civs advance eras, like in Civ3, you know, the "fall of rome" kind of thing? because it looked like that

After that, resumed expansion, currently in 1200ad (this not a spoiler I guess) very behind, still stuck to my landmass, no contacts, no wonders, no religion , my only achievement being control of the barbs, I'm deliberately sticking to horse archers...

Happiness an issue, first I built colloseums, then I realised it would be much easier with hereditary rule... I'm no great player, but I made some silly mistakes that I could have avoided...

All in all, still alive, and reading my progress by the demografics (7th in everything by far ) the game is a no-hoper, but I'll stick to it, might not have enough time to submit game though...

I tried Contender level, next BOTM I'll get more serious, and humble, I'll go just Adventurer.

 

[Lord Civius]

First off nice map KCD I am having a lot of fun with it. Since I have not played a game of Civ4 in over a year I thought this would be a fun game to get my feet wet again.

I decided to SIP for obvious reasons and pump another warrior out ASAP. Since I decided to try and grab a religion no need for a worker right away to stand around with nothing to do. Actually got two out and it was fogbusting time with all 3 warriors. Grabbed Hindu and got my worker out a few turns before AH.

Right now I have 5 cities 25 pop, have had them for a bit now. Decided not to overexpand since I have my cities specialized, a solid research rate at 65 bpt and wanted to make sure I do not spread my forces to thin in my barb exposed cities.

I have two cottage farms growing and one Production city (used for Wonders and a few units) in the west and my unit spam city to the south. However it is now time to expand again and I have 2 settlers on the move with one on the way. Barbs knocked my iron off line for a bit so I have mostly Chariots and HA's for settler and worker protection. My 4 Axes (along with chariots) are protecting my 2 exposed cities (first 3 are behind TGW).

Wonders:
TGW 1680 BC
Oracle 1280 BC
ToA 300 BC

Tech Path: (from memory so I am sure it is only about 80% accurate )
Myst-Poly-AH-Mining-Masonry-wheel-BW-Sailing-Priesthood-Pottery-Writing-Mono-Monarchy-Hunting-Archery-IW-Math-HBR-Alph-MC-Compass-Currency(3 turns)

I am the most advanced civ in the world and from ther stats I am about middle of the pack on everything else though it looks like I am a lot smaller then most other civs. Hopefully with my new wave of expansion I should get on par soon. After Currency I am going to research optics and prolly beeline Astro.

 

[kcd_swede]

Barbs knocked my iron off line for a bit so I have mostly Chariots and HA's for settler and worker protection. My 4 Axes (along with chariots) are protecting my 2 exposed cities (first 3 are behind TGW).

Wonders:
TGW 1680 BC
Oracle 1280 BC
ToA 300 BC

In case you didn't know, if you own the Great Wall, it prevents barbarians from entering your cultural borders in ALL cities on the continent it was built - even outside of where the actual wall is shown on the map.

Sounds like you are doing pretty well. keep up the good play!

 

[jesusin]

Welcome to BOTM, keiselhorn13!

...barb fights lasted quite a while, but the weird thing is that it suddenly calmed down...

Do barbs in Civ4 have a massive spawn when other civs advance eras, like in Civ3, you know, the "fall of rome" kind of thing? because it looked like that

There is a point in time were barbs start to found cities. When they do, they move on to defend them and they do not spawn as many individual units anymore (but they build them in their cities).

After that, resumed expansion, currently in 1200ad (this not a spoiler I guess)

I'm afraid it is... this kind of information should be exposed in the Final Spoiler thread only.

 

[Lord Civius]

In case you didn't know, if you own the Great Wall, it prevents barbarians from entering your cultural borders in ALL cities on the continent it was built - even outside of where the actual wall is shown on the map.

Sounds like you are doing pretty well. keep up the good play!

Damn as long as I have played the game I always thought they were only blocked by the wall. I guess that makes sense that they only pillaged the long road (outside of my cultural borders) connecting my iron to my main cities and not anything else. I guess it is pretty aparent that I do not build TGW very often. Now that I have this bit of info it is suddenly a much, much better GW. Thanks KCD

I am not sure if I will be able to finish by the deadline since some personal matters have come up. I will post the save either way though.