BOTM 64 (Napoleon, Deity) First Spoiler - 1AD

[DynamicSpirit]

BOTM 64 First Spoiler - 1AD

Tell us all how you got on against the tough AI up to 1AD.

Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 64 (Napoleon), then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER

• You have reached at least 1AD in your game, OR
• You have submitted your entry, OR
• You have abandoned your game and will not submit.

Posting Restrictions
Please do not discuss anything that happened after 1AD.
Please do not discuss modern era resource locations (Copper and Iron are OK).
Please do not reveal names or locations of civilization not accessible by galleys.
Please do not divulge your final result if that happened after 1AD.
Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.

 

[Manco Capac]

Lost to Red Sury ~1200 BC. I saw an unbelievable opportunity of a stack of 4 workers plus a barb city defended by one archer. My four axemen lost and the rage welled up so much I didn't see the stack had chariots while focused on that damn bad RNG city. So I lost a city...of mine.

Quitted. Stupid game again. Thanks for the experience. I'm done. This game brought me too much frustration at the wrong moment.

Again I should have quelled myself and play peacefully because this game was definitely winnable.

 

[Folket]

My plan is to hang in there until the modern era where I expect to be able to manhandle the AI.

My first 4 cites were built S-N along the river. The Khmer, Aztecs and Zulu converted to Judaism. I really wanted to join them but it never spread to me.

I have been very cautious with my diplomacy to prevent people from disliking me. I have not traded with America, Aztecs or Korea.

This is my first game on Diety and I'm a little shocked by how fast the AI expands. I have problem having half as many cities. Luckily I have been having the strongest economy in the game from time to time. But since 350BC the Zulu economy has bloomed. They are definitely a contender to win the game.

Settled on PH. I started with building a worker at turn 1. Wanted to improve those deers and furs. Teched pottery and bronze working. Probably bronze working first but I do not remember.

At a point the Khmer started to plot a war against me. I scouted his land and found his stack in a border city. Luckily for me he asked me to help him by giving him Mathematics. I was very happy to help him out. Peace treaty caused him to stop plotting war and send his stack to conquer a barb city. He did not take it in the first turn of combat so I manage to take it after he had worn it down. giving him Mathematics caused him to be pleased with me so I asked him for monotheism which he gave me. I then converted to OR before adopting an religion to keep him happy. He also spread Confucianism to me and later converted. After a while I converted as well to get him up to friendly.

Converting to Confucianism has caused the Aztec to be annoyed with me. I'm not to worried, they hate a lot of people and are far away. I'm much more worried about the Zulu. i have only been able to keep my army at 1/2.5 to 1/3 of the AIs armies. If I'm able to lib military tradition I can enter a defensive pact with the Khmer.

Very exciting game. I'm struggling at half score, even gold, third production, half food as the AIs. I'm looking forward to continue the game when I have some time over.

 

[Folket]

DynamicSpirit, how edited is the map? Is it fair to say I have won on deity if I win this game?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

DynamicSpirit, how edited is the map? Is it fair to say I have won on deity if I win this game?

I believe this is a genuine deity game.

As for what edits I might have made to the map... Ask me again once you get to the final spoiler. That information is I think best revealed to people who have finished their games, if anyone still wants to know at that point

 

[Folket]

I believe this is a genuine deity game.

As for what edits I might have made to the map... Ask me again once you get to the final spoiler. That information is I think best revealed to people who have finished their games, if anyone still wants to know at that point

Thanks, That is all I wanted to know. I look forward to continue the game tomorrow.

 

[Jastrow]

Well, first and foremost, I am still alive!!

At Deity, that is far from a given for me.

7 cities, no wonders, have CS, and am researching Philo, which I should be able to trade for paper. This is good enough for rough tech parity with Surinam, which is my best buddy. We are a bit ahead of others in tech.

I am currently sharring Surinams religion (he spread it to me), and also share a favorite civic... He also got into a war with Roosy, and I joined in. Did not see any action, but scored some buddy points with Sury.

So, so far so good... I have a good friend, and while I have ruffled a few features, no one really hates me. I have a decent base of 7 cities, and plan to get up to 12 or so with the land I have my sights on. I am still hoping to be first to liberalism, tho that is far from a given. From there we will see... I am not sure my cities are good enough to cary this through to a win, but at least I should be around for a while.

 

[undead]

The game has been intense, like the one with the 4 monties. Since I expected to end quickly, I took extensive notes from the start. I have just edited them to improve readability (somewhat).

In the first part, the hopeful one, I'm probably making slight errors or having no idea about how to win. The starting resources seem more helpful than in the test games I have tried. I didn't have to rely on cottages for a long time.

Spoiler :

4000BC going SW; another fur; cottages won't be needed as badly after all
3960BC settling; research hunting; the governor works the hill fur, OK; the warrior continues further W (won't go too far, probably counter-clockwise)
3760BC the borders have expanded; the governor works the river deer now, same result as before, but the research would go a bit faster if working the river fur; since building the worker already takes too long, I let the river deer
3680BC research mining; feeling adventurous; for how long will I delay archery?
3600BC meeting Suryavarman II's archer from the SE (he has archery); S2 attacked me in a previous game (I'm sure he doesn't remember though): he has a scout to the N too
3480BC worker ready, will improve the river deer; build a warrior (maybe building archers would have been better)
3400BC encounter a lion; ominous, and reminds me bad things; anyway, research bronze working (archery, when?); wait for the lion in a forest
3360BC the lion attacks and dies; will heal for 4 turns (a dead warrior isn't useful either anyway)
3320BC river deer improved, now go to the river fur (on the flat land)
3280BC Wang Kon's scout to the W; I think he's quiet but not easily friendly
3240BC size 2; I need a faster tech, so I force working the unimproved flat river fur; will improve it first instead of the second deer
3160BC warrior ready; build a barrack, at least for a while; the healed warrior stumbles upon a warrior barb
3120BC the warrior is attacked and wins; will heal unpromoted; the other warrior explores N
3080BC as in most games, we are at the S end of the map; the flat river fur has been improved; will improve the second deer
3040BC one warrior barb to the E; S2 is probably in WHEOOHRN mode, even if I wonder how I could know that without the icon
3000BC as I improve the deer, I realize that I didn't have to cut the forest to improve the second fur; the barb to the E has disappeared
2960BC S2's archer took care of it (a little damaged); I explore the SW reluctantly: don't want to awake the forest

2880BC bronze working researched; research archery; no revolution yet; copper! connected! (OK, I understand why...) after all, who needs archery? maybe there is an opportunity to go to the neighbours; maybe after the barb archers are quiet; will need to chop, expand, whip; and scout S2's home; research pottery instead of archery; need some spearmen with the axemen stack
2840BC settling to the SW is tempting but I probably need to settle E, near the neighbour; the barbs from the W will entertain the axemen; only city raider promotions; send the 2 warriors for an axeman upgrade; revolt to slavery (hope S2's archer won't attack the empty city); the deer has been improved, will improve the hill fur
2800BC borders of a new S2's city to the E; whipped 2 pops for the barracks, probably a bit early (3 turns to growth)
2760BC overflow to an axeman
2780BC Roosevelt's scout from the NW; build another axeman; won't probably upgrade the warriors yet (too expensive); one warrior will keep the city; the other warrior... the other city?
2640BC chop the forest on hill fur
2520BC chopping the forest did improve the tile; pottery is ready; research animal husbandry (who knows?) then writing; the monument will wait; axeman ready, build a settler (the game suggests it with the confidence of a GPS); will mine one grassland hill, then cottage (and hope they will last) even if the furs are providing lots of commerce
2480BC one of S2's workers appears at the border to the E; I don't know... move an axeman to the worker
2440BC two workers on the same tile now! won't they leave me alone?
2320BC S2's workers have disappeared; my governor works the mined hill; before improving the other hill, I build a road to S2's city

In the second part, discovering where the horses are, and surprised by the real life clock, I decide to attack S2 (instead of improving the military ratio and peacefuly gaining the horses with a culture contest). Maybe not that bad, because I never saw a mounted unit from S2. On the other hand, I was supposed to settle a second city at some point, I guess...

Spoiler :

2280BC animal husbandry researched; oh noes! there are horses to the E, connected to S2's city (where the 2 workers were); I should attack and pillage now or settle near it and win the border against the creative leader; research writing (then iron working?); let's lose quickly: I enter the horse pasture with an axeman; hope no chariot is ready before I pillage it; I promote the axeman to combat 1, even if it won't be enough anyway
2240BC nobody attacks; I pillage the horses pasture; whip a granary; no settler yet; will overflow to a spearman

2200BC this is when 3 barb warriors appear from SW, N and NW; move the axemen back to town for some exercize, except the one near S2's city who have a look at the city: 3 archers and 1 axeman, +20%, hill
2080BC first wave destroyed; deer improvement pillaged
2040BC 2 barb warriors, SW an NW
2000BC 1 barb warrior NW
1960BC 3 barb warriors SW, NW, NW
1920BC writing researched, research iron working (might be interesting); settler ready (not sure where to settle), build a library
1840BC second barb wave destroyed; S2's power is quickly increasing though...
1800BC deer restored; build another mine; settle SW near gems or E near horses?
1720BC S2 attacks: 2 axemen, 1 spearman, 1 archer to the E
1640BC S2's archer to the SW
1600BC open borders with Wang Kon
1560BC 1 more spearman to the E
1480BC 2 more axemen to the E
1440BC 1 barb warrior to the NW
1400BC S2's stack is behaving strangely: almost pillaging, almost attacking; this won't last I'm afraid
1360BC 2 barb warriors: N and W; iron working done: no iron nearby; researching archery: one archer won't hurt
1320BC S2 sends 1 more spearman from E
1240BC S2 attacks the city with his stack of 5 and loses every fight! researching mathematics
1200BC Bismarck appears to the NW
1160BC S2 completes the great wall
1120BC first barb archer to the NW
875BC barb spearman to the SW
825BC settle near the horses
775BC research masonry; 2 barb axemen
675BC research mysticism

575BC a stack of 5 from S2 captures and razes my horse city defended by 3 on flat land
550BC first contact with Shaka; Roosevelt gifts meditation (I'll think about it)
500BC conquest imminent! barbs and S2 everywhere
400BC Montezuma from the W
325BC trade mathematics to Bismarck for fishing and priesthood
175BC S2 loses all 11 attackers from his stack; 8 left; warlord
1AD S2 sends his first catapults from the W...

So, at 1AD, I'm still alive but I have one city, no improvement left, and catapults are looming in the distance... Not as bad as nukes though. I might survive for some more years.

 

[surok]

Lost at around 1 AD to slow attack from shaka. He was already plotting when i met him. He declared on Korea so i asumed i was safe for some time, however he launched his stack through out the jungle which i did spot with my fogbuster, but it was too late. My gems site was captured, and the other city at NW up the river was cut out and about to fall next.
I made 2 big mistakes in this game.
1.Settling west prior to north (wanted to get those gems asap) which resulted in being boxed out by the Syri.
2.Overestimated my opponents techwise by teching Aesthetics too early -> not being able to trade it for alpha and IW for quite a bit of time, because noone else have had alpha yet which was odd.
Of course i could continue playing with 3 cities left, but it would take too much time and hammers to retake my cities back and come back on a track. To sum up i'd like to say that the game could be a fairly easy win, if i didn't make some rookie blunders at the beginning.

 

[Solyaris]

This is going great!

- Settled on the PH, started with worker -> warrior -> warrior -> settler (size 4) wipp with max overflow, settled 3 north of capital
- Initial techpath: hunting -> mining -> BW -> wheel -> pottery -> library -> aesthetics

Quickly realized the west was one huge open area, so built fog-busters (4 warriors and 2 axe) early. Expanded north first, then south-west (gem/wheat) and then purely west. Shaka went into WHEOOH quite early, but due to no shared border I felt safe he went for somebody else. Well, he didn't, but thanks to a fog-buster, I had a ~10 turn warning about the incoming attack. 7 axe defending was more then enough, and only lost 1 axe before he settled for peace (gave him literature for peace).

@1 AD I have 10 cities (11 or 12 will be max peacefully), looking in great shape techwise, and 2 GP (artist from music, GS for academy). Pleased with Khmer and German empire, all AI's but the Germans (15) have 10-11 cities.

Not sure about victory plan. No horses, so cuirassiers is out of the picture. Might try to lib steel, but I think the Germans will beat me if I delay that long. Only have 1 religion, and no 16th chapel, making culture victory hard. Think Ill go for steel and kill shaka if its possible.

 

[Folket]

This is going great!

- Settled on the PH, started with worker -> warrior -> warrior -> settler (size 4) wipp with max overflow, settled 3 north of capital
- Initial techpath: hunting -> mining -> BW -> wheel -> pottery -> library -> aesthetics

Quickly realized the west was one huge open area, so built fog-busters (4 warriors and 2 axe) early. Expanded north first, then south-west (gem/wheat) and then purely west. Shaka went into WHEOOH quite early, but due to no shared border I felt safe he went for somebody else. Well, he didn't, but thanks to a fog-buster, I had a ~10 turn warning about the incoming attack. 7 axe defending was more then enough, and only lost 1 axe before he settled for peace (gave him literature for peace).

@1 AD I have 10 cities (11 or 12 will be max peacefully), looking in great shape techwise, and 2 GP (artist from music, GS for academy). Pleased with Khmer and German empire, all AI's but the Germans (15) have 10-11 cities.

Not sure about victory plan. No horses, so cuirassiers is out of the picture. Might try to lib steel, but I think the Germans will beat me if I delay that long. Only have 1 religion, and no 16th chapel, making culture victory hard. Think Ill go for steel and kill shaka if its possible.

10 cities and first to liberalism. That sounds like a very strong start.

 

[Ronnie1]

This is going great!

- Settled on the PH, started with worker -> warrior -> warrior -> settler (size 4) wipp with max overflow, settled 3 north of capital
- Initial techpath: hunting -> mining -> BW -> wheel -> pottery -> library -> aesthetics

Quickly realized the west was one huge open area, so built fog-busters (4 warriors and 2 axe) early. Expanded north first, then south-west (gem/wheat) and then purely west. Shaka went into WHEOOH quite early, but due to no shared border I felt safe he went for somebody else. Well, he didn't, but thanks to a fog-buster, I had a ~10 turn warning about the incoming attack. 7 axe defending was more then enough, and only lost 1 axe before he settled for peace (gave him literature for peace).

@1 AD I have 10 cities (11 or 12 will be max peacefully), looking in great shape techwise, and 2 GP (artist from music, GS for academy). Pleased with Khmer and German empire, all AI's but the Germans (15) have 10-11 cities.

Not sure about victory plan. No horses, so cuirassiers is out of the picture. Might try to lib steel, but I think the Germans will beat me if I delay that long. Only have 1 religion, and no 16th chapel, making culture victory hard. Think Ill go for steel and kill shaka if its possible.

That is a nice start for sure.

I was expanding pretty well, playing very nice with everyone, watching religions spread throughout the world, waiting......waiting.....then, my best bud Sury comes directly out of war with Korea, marches all of his units to our closest border city and promptly DoW's and takes it. It is the only city lost, but the damage is done. REX resources are converted to defensive and counter offensive resources and my REX stalls at 6 cities.

I don't see this ending well.

 

[PattonTwo]

I'm having a good time for a game that I know I'll lose. I had the good fortune to conquer 2 barb cities so as of 1 AD I have 5 cities with 32 total population and have just completed the Great Library.

I'm dead last in score of course at 450. Everyone else is from 550 to 650 except Germany who's at 1000. Wow. I expect to be killed off any time.

However for kicks I'm building some catapults and in about 20 turns I'll start building War Elephants for my hypothetical war of conquest. We'll see.

I've kept up in tech primarily from getting to Aesthetics and then making a few good trades to gain Monarchy when only 1 other civ had it. I'm expecting to fall rapidly behind now but we shall see.

 

[Htadus]

I started this game thinking that I would loose to Barbs as I have in the last several diety games. But DS made sure that need not happen and thank you. So i realized now it is up to me to see what deity is all about (None HOF culture games that is).

Settling:
Settled SW on the plains hill, started a worker and learned Hunting. The warrior went east and tried to hide from Red border but Khmer scout found us by T5. Let the cities grow to size 4 and start the first settler. Khmer 3rd city was toward us and we, Nappy and I, had to take a site with no food but had two plantation resources to east. This city also had a pleasant gift from DS in the form of horses. Again thanks DS.

Early Techs
I decided to use the Deity equalizer, the so called whip, for this game. So after AH, the tech path was Mining, Pottery and Mysticism, before we learned BW. I decided to whip the second settler fairly early to claim a city on a desert hill with 2 desert corns and also block Khmer settling toward France.

Missed opportunity:
Next I tried to get the Oracle but ended up missing it by 4 turns and real late too. The capital could have done it but I decided not to. Bad choice. Next the tech path was toward MC but within 100 bpt I saw that Khmer was also learning MC. So I decided to head to CoL. Ended up founding the religion. Oh yeah, all French espy points are on Khmer. So eventually I will get MC from him.

BC Expansion:And then the Barbs came a visiting but the axes were waiting. During this phase French claimed the Gem city to southwest, Banana city further southwest, another fur city to west and A city 5 north of capital. First 4 axes got killed by stupid actions of Napoleon, definitely not me. But the subsequent 5 axes captured 2 barb cities to North and NW. There were 9 cities at 0AD but another was founded immediately after. 3 workers. Yikes.

Friend and Enema's
Well no friends. For a brief moment, America was please with us. That is it. I almost decided to Axe rush Zulu but refrained. That may have been good thing but oh well too late now. When we finally met Wong, he was very unhappy with us. Oh well can't have everyone happy with us. There is way too much caution in this game....or is it Cautious? May be it is both.

Diplomacy
You kill me. What diplomacy? I am the worst diplomatic player out there. Monti ask for war against Wong and I said no. Wong asked not to trade with Monti, I said no. Khmer asked for fir and I said ....yes. He had a stack of about 8 units next to my horse city defended by a warrior. I am not that stupid....well that can be argued. But when Monti made his demand, his archer was in my territory in a city defended by no one (it was building an archer) and I thought for sure that he is going to DoW. But AI being AI did not see the opportunity. Thank you Sid (Chris) and gang. I also said "to hell with you" to the Americans and Germans. So I am doing a good job of making friends for life.

Oh well the AI's have been very busy. In addition to Aztec-Korean war there has been a Zulu-German and American war that has been going on for a while. And I have been a classic tech Ho.

Plans: War and decide. I have not done a space game in a while. This is the most unpredictable level to play a space game. So who knows.

Since I do not play Diety, I want to pose a question about Deity war. How many units should I bring to the party? Cuiras' with minor musketeer protection. Around 1000 - 1100 AD.

 

[undead]

The warrior went east and tried to hide from Red border but Khmer scout found us by T5.

Why would you avoid contact? Is it for diplomatic reasons?

 

[Htadus]

Why would you avoid contact? Is it for diplomatic reasons?

It is just an observation. It seems that if an AI know where you are at, they will place a city in your direction asap. I could be wrong but it definitely looks like it. Either case he did put his third city toward me. Coincidence or just some AI code?

Now if it is a always war game. Then it would be to hide as long as possible and then scream "Surprise" to AI with bunch of axes and early too. Does not always work put well.

 

[jesusin]

jesusin, contender. Goal: Fastest cultural game.

Start:

Warrior 1E. Settler 1S1W. Settle on PH, 2deer, 2furs, see wheat. Work furs.
Builds: Worker, Warrior-Warrior-Settler(2pops whipped)
Research: Hunting-Minning-BW

I considered Hunting-Archery-Pottery-Writing-Alphabet, but without hills and without slavery, I would not be able to protect myself from barbs conveniently. Whipping would also be useful for my second city, which I had already decided would be a hammerless one among FPs.

This, of course, was the most important decision of the game. I can't stress enough the importance of the first few decisions of the game.

Another important decision I am proud of is sending 2 Warriors to the soon-to-be-second-city site. In all my games so far I have just kept one unit defending the site; when a roaming barb or animal is lucky and kills that unit, my game is severely hampered.

02 city was built N, 1NW of corn, with corn, oasis and 6FP. It was planned to have lots of cottages to support research and to become a Legendary city.


Expanding:

Barb city popped on PH North deranges my settling plans.
03 built West, with Wheat, Gems, Banana, shared Deer.
04 built NNW, 1SE of cow. -9gpt. It would become my GPFarm and 3rd Legendary city.
Alpha got (through Pottery) 1200BC.
My whipping the next Settler was a good idea, but I lost the 2 Corn site NE and the nice site NW to AIs anyway.
Nobody has PH, so I'll try Oracle for CoL.

1000 BC Stats: 4 cities, 13pop, Set, 3workers, 8units(6Axe), 1 strategic resources, 1 luxury resources, 3 health resources, 0 great persons, 0 world wonders, 0 national wonders, food/production/commerce=42-18-38, 26 bpt at breakeven, 5 culture per turn, 6 great person points per turn, 20 gold, 3Gra, Lib, Monu. 0 religions, 5/6 cottages used, 15 Techs: Alpha, IW, PH. 0 civs killed. 4,5 hours played.


Middle game:

Juddaism spreads (missionary).
05 built NE of 04, on PH, 8FPs.
Oracle in capital 750BC for CoL and founding Confu
06built W of 04, on FP, with Iron, 2PH, 2FP, 4 shared FP
GP1(GS) in 02, no good Acad, so bulb Tao once I can
Decide to build SoZ in 04 just because I can, although it will delay my NE there.
Barb city N of 02 taken. Corn and a few FPs.
Bulb Philo for Tao (I have 3 religions!).
Buddishm spreads (missionary).
SoZ and Parthenon completed

1AD Stats: 7 cities, 40 pop, 8workers, 9units (6Axe), 2strategic resources, 3luxury resources, 5health resources, 1 great persons, 2 world wonders, 0 national wonders, food/production/commerce=127-30-139, 66 sustainable beakers per turn, 70 useful culture per turn, 19 great person points per turn, 0 gold. 4 religions. 13/15 cottages used (5fake), 24 Techs: Music, IW, Philo, Maths, CoL. 0 civs killed. 9 hours played. 6rel*city, 3temples, 0cath

Read about my endgame in the final spoiler.