gettingfat said:
The issue is whether it is an overkill by putting more than a dozen of great/national wonders in the game if your suggestions are adopted.
No, there needs to be a far greater amount of wonders in the modern ages, as the impact of early age wonders is exponentially greater than modern wonders. To make up for the difference, there should be more modern wonders.
gettingfat said:
How many wonders are there in the game. And do you consider other countries have no significant achievements in the modern time?
Nobody said anything along those lines. Nobody is demanding the Three Gourges Dam to be taken out, outside of the people who think its an American wonder.Then all of the sudden, its becomes a "We can't have it in there!"
gettingfat said:
everything big done by the USA looks even bigger in your eyes. The problem is, some centuries ago, something that looked very trendy and the biggest thing at that time may only be a footnote in the history book.
100 years later, I bet people will still be listening to the music made by Mozart or Beethoven, but very few people will know Mickey Mouse. Ok, if you wish make it a Great Artist, then. And once again, Disneyland's success is derived from the success of movie industry. In a sense it's essentially a more successful theme park compared to Universal Studio. No need to over-represent that.
That's irrelevant for discussion. It is the importance in each relative age that matters in the game for the majority of wonders, not the importance across ages. Nobody is demanding Stonehenge to have a lasting appeal beyond the ancient age. Obelisks are important
for that age, but the advance of calendars negates that benefit. The Parthenon is great for an early age GP farm, but of course, it becomes obsolete. There are only a few wonders that have lasting appeals across ages, ie the Pyramids or Hanging Gardens. The problem with Civ IV is the lack of a post-modern age, in which wonders can again become negated. You are free to make up your own technologies that would render the modern ones benefitless.
Therefore, the argument you have makes no logical sense, and in fact contradicts in the backdrop of the game. Most Wonders are meant to be beneficial in a limited window, but the problem with modern wonders is that there is not a future technology tree to eliminate those bonuses. Hypothesizing about the future gains of current wonders is thus moot.
gettingfat said:
And you simply can't compare the modern age wonders to those built earlier. Nowadays, the world is like one. Back in just a few centuries ago, it is unusual if a building is known by people in several countries. Now if something is not known by most people in the world for a decent stretch of time, you can't even call it a wonder candidate. Your comparison of Ellis Island to Hagia Sophia is not legitimate at all.
No, you somehow came up with a condition in which a wonder needs to be well known. I argue that there is no condition necessary. I'm pretty sure the Angkor Wat was pretty limited in its knowledge even in its own time period.
gettingfat said:
Remember the Great Wall, a long recognized wonder that took the lives of hundreds of thousands to build it is not even in the game, and Mt. Rushmere is. What do you want more?
That comparison is worthless. One would be clearly a Great Wonder, while the other is merely a modern age National wonder. Apples to oranges, as they say.
gettingfat said:
Also bear in mind that in modern age, it's much easier to build something that looks great. So one got to pick the absolute best out of them. Something that everybody knows, and its influence will probably last. Sorry, I don't even think Broadway fits this criteria.
As stated above, the lasting appeal of a wonder has never been a requirement for a wonder. What you said is completely contradictory to how Civ IV is designed. Most wonders only have a limited window in which their impact is important.
So the only argument you have is that the comparision is not worthless? Again, tell me why should we elevate a national wonder, and compare it to a World Wonder? If anything, you should be arguing how the Great Wall should be back to its Civ III type bonus, and replace what the Chichen Itza does in the game now. In addition, I don't see why a modern wonder should be compared to something that would have its bonuses located in the classical or medieval time periods. Ultimately, I don't need a high horse, I, at least in "my humble opinion," offer up my opinions on the matter beyond just telling others off that they are wrong.
