Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Mad Hab, Jan 19, 2006.
I knew a lot of that, but how did Salazar Slytherin become involved in American Soccer? =@.o=
More clarification is needed here.
The Football Association was founded on 26 October, 1863 - a decade before Intercollegiate Football Association was formed.
This is a World Wonder. Its like an adult playground unmatched throughout the world.
Surely the point is that it was called 'Association FOOTBALL' in the 'early 1800s' and therefore was called football well before the Americans named their rugby-style sport football in 1867 or whenever. It doesn't matter if soccer is an English word or a slang word: the point is that football describes what Yanks call soccer.
We have the West End, and I'm sure every country has its own version, but I can certainly say that The West End is at least comparable to Broadway. Broadway is not an international wonder, but since the game is mainly targetted at Americans it's understandable that they chose the things they did. For example, the Pentagon and Mt. Rushmore aren't exactly the best examples of military command centres or carved cliffs in the world, but they are familiar to Americans.
I'd say that GCHQ has achieved far more than the Pentagon, since it cracked pretty much every code that was cracked by the allies in WW1 and WW2. However, it's not just an American bias. Our very own Scotland Yard isn't exactly the best example of a police force in the world. However, many Americans will have heard of it, so it's in the game.
I'm sure that there's a very interesting thread somewhere about what wonders could have been chosen instead. It would be nice, though, if Americans realised that there is indeed a bias, and non-Americans tried to be less offensive
Or if people didn't make generalizations about an entire country or citizens
The idea of a wonder-type bonus that moves from country to country is intriguing.
"The Olympics" -- first to complete this wonder gets it for fifty turns; thereafter it spends five turns being hosted in a given nation's facilities, then it moves on. Maybe it would be random, or maybe after reaching a certain tech countries that had built their own Olympics could try to bribe the officials to bring the games there so their facilities would have full effect. (The sporting facilities could add a small bonus normally, triple or better while the Olympic Games were in that country.)
It would have to have a different name, most likely. Those corporate lawyers are a mite on the touchy side.
A World Cup could be similar but cost less, since it requires less in the way of facilities.
Of course there is a bias. Sid is an American, the game is developed and made by Americans. The largest market for games is... America.
When game companies in other countries are developing games that have a worldwide audience like the Civ series, they can tilt the cultural bias in their direction. I probably won't be buying an Infogrames product with 16 French Wonders, but they are free to give it a try.
Just a quick question for you. I understand that being voted Sec. General is important so you can control what to vote on but why is building the UN so important? Am I missing some fine point about hosting the UN?
I would think that Las Vegas would make a much better wonder then the Broadway.
As for you people bashing Americans over 'football' keep in mind that it is the most played sport by boys and girls in the pre high school years and has been for a good decade or more here in America. Why it doesn't translate to the higher levels of sports and fails badlly every time it is tried on a professional level has to come down to our national view on what we see as 'fun to watch.' I really don't think it comes down to rather we are good at it or not, heck the US womans soccer team has pertty well dominated the world over the last decade and it barly gets a notice here in the US, so being good or bad at it isn't why most Americans don't follow the sport past the teenage years.
IMO soccer is fun to play but about as exciting as watchng grass grow, and yes I think I know the game very well. I have 3 daughters who have all played and my youngest is a heck of a goalie and her team went to a Cailf. regional finals, and I still hate watching the game, cheering my daughter on of course but watching soccer? I think I would rather go visit the dentist, does that make me uncultured? If so too bad give me a good baseball or 'real' football game any day of the week
I think that this is where people are getting a tad too sensitive. Saying that "americans don't care about soccer" is a fair statement when talking about the average american joe. It's not the same as saying "not a single american cares about soccer", which would obviously be untrue. Just because you're american (or canadian) and you happen to love the sport doesn't change the fact that you're a minority in your country. And the statement certainly wasn't bashing anybody, as far as I can tell.
Conversely, saying that "soccer is huge in the rest of the world" is also true, even if you could find tons of individuals in south-america or europe who don't give a rat's ass about it.
'Or if people didn't make generalizations about an entire country or citizens'
Well sorry if you found it offensive, but it's pretty clear to me that I can wish for all Americans to realise that there's a bias that could be corrected while still realising myself that some already do. I don't see how I'm generalising from some of your (presumably) compatriots to you.
Anyway, I think that generalisations do have some value. Almost every American I've met (and I've travelled a fair amount in the US) has been kind and friendly, but also very poorly informed about other countries when compared to, for example, Europeans. I can make generalisations, and if you don't fit it, good for you, but the generalisation still has some value.
'Of course there is a bias. Sid is an American, the game is developed and made by Americans. The largest market for games is... America.
When game companies in other countries are developing games that have a worldwide audience like the Civ series, they can tilt the cultural bias in their direction. I probably won't be buying an Infogrames product with 16 French Wonders, but they are free to give it a try.'
I said myself that I can see why there's a bias. Repeating the point as if I had somehow missed it is stupid. And I think that a generalisation of Americans as narrow-minded may well not fit ReignKing, but if you really would pass up a new Civ version if it had chosen wonders that truly were the best rather than the best the Americans have then you fit the generalisation rather well.
Trying to justify the American bias by use of the free market dosn't work. If Scotland Yard is inferior to the Russian or Nazi police forces then that's the way it is. The free market can't change history, and since Civ is based, admittedly loosely, on history, then I think I and the other posters here have a reasonable point.
Using your example why was Scotland Yard picked over say the FBI or the KGB? If this was such an American biased game then the obivous choice would of been the FBI. You name any Wonder and some one can make an argument over another being picked. If I am making a game like this and tring to keep my main fan base happy I try to make choices that they will KNOW. I would think most Americans would recognize FBI, KGB or Scotland Yard so they have an OPTION to pick which they think is best. However if say you asked the average American about Broadway and say Londons Theater disctrict (by the way I spent time in London and have seen several good plays there, years ago and not one Broadway play) then they really only have one choice. Is it biased? I think it is but I do NOT think it is unfounded, after all they are making this game to MAKE MONEY, not just to po a bunch of Euro trash and please that last statment was ment in fun before you start to flame.
The reason why Broadway has an impact on USA and mostly Europe is becausewe built it first. So, like the game of Civ, it produces wonder-envy in the rest of the world. Civ is just like life, in that if someone builds something first, you sometimes don't respect it's significance. Does everyone in the USA know anything about the Parthenon or the Colosus; not really. But, if we built it, I assure you we'd know all about those things and love 'em.
Blame me, but IMO the Broadway is just a modern Version of Shakespeares Theater
Yes thats true the Football Association was founded in 1863. It was one of many associations or clubs. All with their own rule set. International rules for the game were finalized in 1882. Of course this changes nothing about the origins of the word Soccer. It was an English name for the sport, and I don't understand why some people have such a hard time with Americans using it.
Brighteye: I just get sick of all of the "my-country-is-better-than-yours" posts, that's all. You bring up something quite relevant, though; Americans don't know much about other countries, relative to Europeans, which only makes sense due to simple geography. At least a "generalization" such as that has some merit due to logic and facts, as opposed to "all American movies are trash"
Excellent idea, allows new civic "Organized crime"
If you have the Vegas Wonder it adds +1 gold output for all your collosiums for all that sports betting going on
The shows in Vegas draw more people and gross more money today than Broadway does. Broadway has been around longer, is more famous and prestigious and just sounds better. People brag about going to Broadway. The tourism folks current an ad slogan is "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas." See the difference?
Could you imagine the posts if they included Vegas as a world wonder?
The Strip as a Wonder would be awesome. Vegas Baby! Vegas!
But you see, If you were the leader of a civilisation and had lived for 6500 years, Broadway really would be a national wonder. If for no other reason that that you, a 6500 year old person built it. . And Noah thought he got funny looks from his neighbors....
My first experience with the resources from Broadway, Mansu had built all three. I was in a nasty war with Japan that had started right after finishing one with another civ. WarW was becomming a big problem. I was happy (after coping an attitude) to pay the stout 30gpt each. The true fun part though, was the very next game I built all 3, and guess who just happen to be needing some. For 30 GPT, of course. lol. And I was really supprized when he paid it. He had 73gpt available. I sold him two for 60. So I think that is the max.
Now, if you managed to build all 3, and got 30 gpt each extra resource, thats 360gpt max value. Even if you only got half that. If there was a wonder that had the potential of providing you 120 gpt plus culture would you realy care what it's called? And to give you 3 chances at completing such a wonder is something new to the civ series. They could have called them McDonald's, Burger King and Taco Bell for all I care (those international enough for you?). And you can too. Mod it in.
I see "football", I think of the American sport. However, if I see "futbol" I know exactly what is being talked about. Thats how I usually see it on the TV guide.
What about baseball? That sport is not limited to the US.
And finally to the part about Germany and American roadways. The Autobon imo would certainly be considered quality work, whereas the American Interstate system is another story. However. One of the things designed into the Eisenhouer Interstate System, is every several miles it was also mandated that there be level, straight and clear section that could be used as an emergency aircraft runway. And somehow I think that in the event of an emergency, it would be easier to repair the thiner version. IIRC, the EIS and the Autobon were in a race against each other. Another reason for the cheaper construction.
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