Brute with 8k Strength

[Odinius Arcainius]

This is not SVN, I am switching to SVN after submitting this report and restarting my game in that version.

This is the public release v41.2, using the Standard Earth Space Map.

As you can see several of my primitive pre-historic-era units have the strength of the Gods. I did not edit them.
In the screenshot you will notice a Brute with 8000 Str, a Stone Thrower with 225, and a Scout at 88.66....

I have used WB to add Civs and debug mode to switch active player. I realize that alone will likely be the cause of instability, but just posting this to see if anyone has any idea what is going on. Using all C2C Combat options.

I noticed a couple turns back a Brute appeared to have 100 Str. He reset to 1 and I assumed I miss read. Then I reload the save tonight and see this.

Edit: Forgot to attach screenshot here it is.
Edit2: My bad the Brute has a maximum of 10k Str

Edit3: Now running SVN (41.2.5507), brand new game
I used WB only to add a few Civs to the standard Earth Space Map, saved as a scenario and edited WB file to make the added Civs playable. Will update this post if issue is reproduced. If it does, Ill enable logs and post them as well.

 

[raxo2222]

It seems like Size matters ON or OFF messes up with worldbuilder, and multiplies strength values by 100 twice.
Upload save

 

[Odinius Arcainius]

It seems like Size matters ON or OFF messes up with worldbuilder, and multiplies strength values by 100 twice.
Upload save

Here ya go. Playing with same options on new SVN game, haven't encountered the issue yet (literally just set it up), will keep you posted.

Edit: After reading your post I went back and looked at the save also and saw that even the AI units all had strength multiplied to insane levels. Saw a Celtic Stone Thrower at 22k. (What an arm on him!) A (very) Wise woman even had 800 Air Strength? As shown in the WB Unit Editor.

Again so far on new SVN game no multipliers despite me using WB on it a few times to tweak a few things. As I like to play with WB often throughout course of game to adjust things, rename AI cities and the like, this would be a gamebreaker for me. Should I start over without size matters or is this an easy fix?

 

[raxo2222]

Here ya go. Playing with same options on new SVN game, haven't encountered the issue yet (literally just set it up), will keep you posted.

Edit: After reading your post I went back and looked at the save also and saw that even the AI units all had strength multiplied to insane levels. Saw a Celtic Stone Thrower at 22k. (What an arm on him!) A (very) Wise woman even had 800 Air Strength? As shown in the WB Unit Editor.

Again so far on new SVN game no multipliers despite me using WB on it a few times to tweak a few things. As I like to play with WB often throughout course of game to adjust things, rename AI cities and the like, this would be a gamebreaker for me. Should I start over without size matters or is this an easy fix?

So it seems like size matters bug with WB was fixed at some point, just make sure that you started new game on latest SVN.

 

[Odinius Arcainius]

Issue is persisting in SVN 41.2.5507, got a Brute with 100 Str 22 turns in.

Edit: Further inspection confirms multiplier is affecting units across the board (checked with WB).
Also saw a Tribal Guardian in Athens at 10k Str and 10k Air Strength..

 

[Toffer90]

You got to explain what it is you do in WB to make this happen.

 

[Odinius Arcainius]

Edit: Issue can be reproduced simply by using these options...

(I removed the steps I had originally included in this post because they are not relevant, see below)

 

[Toffer90]

Could you share the WB file you start in step 10.

That way I can skip step 1-9. ^^

 

[Odinius Arcainius]

Edit: I notice World Builder Unit Editor doesn't use decimal to represent str values. I suspect this may be related to the multiplier affecting some units.

Example: Tribal Guardian with Str of 2.0 is shown as Str: 200 in WB Unit Editor. My Brute that somehow ended up with 100 Str now shows up as 10,000 in WB Unit Editor. The effect continues to stack as turns progress.

I noticed my 100-Str Brute was Lv2 and wondered if leveling had any relation to the glitch. I then noticed in my save another Brute from another tribe with 100 Str (10k in WB) was Lv1., so the issue is not dependent on leveling.

 

[Odinius Arcainius]

Decided to try again with the new commit, SVN 41.2.5561

Turn 100 new game, same setup, no issues so far (fingers crossed) will keep you posted.

Looking like this one might be resolved. Rome is going to Space.

Albeit, I did set it to snail this time, and at the rate I can play who knows how long that will take. Hoping for a smooth ride, but will share any issues along the way, great to see so much healthy development on this mod continues and I was very impressed with WB enhancements. The depth this mod offers already is unparalleled even by the appeal of the newer games. Multimaps will take that even further. Brighter days ahead, no doubt.

 

[Odinius Arcainius]

Aannnd its back.... Turn 552 (58688 BC) (SVN 11372 - 41.2.5561). Saw a Brute in AI city has 100.00 Str. Opened WB and looked around, another AI city has a Tribal Guardian with 200.00 STR, (20,000 in WB.) Worth noting, in all cases these appear to be multiples of the units base strength x100.

Edit (30-Oct-21): Resolved, see last post.

 

[Odinius Arcainius]

Alright, forgive my quad-posting spree but I wanted this to have separate slot with attached save.

I think I have isolated the cause a little better for you developers to maybe figure out what's happening.

Really weird stuff here. I have a WB save that I made after cleaning up the mess from my posts above. When you load it all units strengths seem to be normal with one exception:

Wanderers all have 0.66 Str instead of 1.0 as they should. It gets weirder. You dont even need to advance the turn. Just save the game and reload. All unit strengths get multiplied. Those Wanderers now have 44.00 Str and all units across the board have multiplied strength.

Steps to Reproduce.

1. Load Mod, Single Player -> Custom Scenario -> r41.2.5605.210829.57kcbe.t557 (attached) -> Ok
2. Select Roman City State -> Ok -> Launch with pre-selected options (these should already be selected)
3. Observe that all units should be at normal Strength, except wanderers which for some reason all have 0.66 Strength. (Not a game breaker but weird)
4. Save the Game. (No need to advance turn)
5. Reload the Save you just made.
6. Observe unit strengths out of whack across the map.

 

[Somebody613]

Alright, forgive my quad-posting spree but I wanted this to have separate slot with attached save.

I think I have isolated the cause a little better for you developers to maybe figure out what's happening.

Really weird stuff here. I have a WB save that I made after cleaning up the mess from my posts above. When you load it all units strengths seem to be normal with one exception:

Wanderers all have 0.66 Str instead of 1.0 as they should. It gets weirder. You dont even need to advance the turn. Just save the game and reload. All unit strengths get multiplied. Those Wanderers now have 44.00 Str and all units across the board have multiplied strength.

Steps to Reproduce.

1. Load Mod, Single Player -> Custom Scenario -> r41.2.5605.210829.57kcbe.t557 (attached) -> Ok
2. Select Roman City State -> Ok -> Launch with pre-selected options (these should already be selected)
3. Observe that all units should be at normal Strength, except wanderers which for some reason all have 0.66 Strength. (Not a game breaker but weird)
4. Save the Game. (No need to advance turn)
5. Reload the Save you just made.
6. Observe unit strengths out of whack across the map.

I'm too lazy to do it myself, but I have suspicions based on previous posts.
What do you mean by "observe" and "save"?
Does any of it involve opening WB?
If so, you were already told that WB turns "1.00" into "100" - so if you are opening WB and *then* saving, you're saving it as already "100".
Thus, the question:
If you DO NOT open WB at all during a save-load "test" - does it still glitch like this?

 

[Odinius Arcainius]

I'm too lazy to do it myself, but I have suspicions based on previous posts.
What do you mean by "observe" and "save"?
Does any of it involve opening WB?
If so, you were already told that WB turns "1.00" into "100" - so if you are opening WB and *then* saving, you're saving it as already "100".
Thus, the question:
If you DO NOT open WB at all during a save-load "test" - does it still glitch like this?

Opening WB is not necessary. By 'Observe' I mean look at unit strengths on the map upon starting the scenario. Then save the game, reload the save and look at the units on the map.

That's what's weird about it. If it was immediately triggered by opening WB then it would be obvious that WB is the problem which I'm not saying its not I'm saying it doesn't usually cause any obvious changes immediately. They show up later, which is no doubt the reason something is obviously already messed up with the scenario and the process of saving and reloading it somehow causes it to manifest.

 

[Somebody613]

Opening WB is not necessary. By 'Observe' I mean look at unit strengths on the map upon starting the scenario. Then save the game, reload the save and look at the units on the map.

That's what's weird about it. If it was immediately triggered by opening WB then it would be obvious that WB is the problem which I'm not saying its not I'm saying it doesn't usually cause any obvious changes immediately. They show up later, which is no doubt the reason something is obviously already messed up with the scenario and the process of saving and reloading it somehow causes it to manifest.

I might test it later to try finding the culprit, but it'd be better if the actual modders did it.

 

[Odinius Arcainius]

Assuming this issue still exists would it be resolved by playing without size matters?

 

[strategyonly]

Assuming this issue still exists would it be resolved by playing without size matters?

i never play withOUT SM, game is boring with out it enabled. .

 

[Odinius Arcainius]

i never play withOUT SM, game is boring with out it enabled. .

It may not be the cause. The truth is I dont know what the issue is being caused by and can only speculate. I only suspected SM because Raxxo said it used to be an issue but he also said it has been fixed. For that matter I dont know if Worldbuilder is causing the issue either. Going to start a new game with SM and without Revolution mod, since apparently that mod is not working right (Partisan Advisor button does nothing in current SVN) and is not recommended. Hoping whatever was causing problems has been fixed in latest SVN.

 

[Odinius Arcainius]

Well that didn't take long... As you can see in the tooltip, those units have exponentially greater strength values than they should. SVN 11385.

Spoiler :

 

[Toffer90]

Partisan Advisor button does nothing in current SVN

Fixed in next SVN rev.

Well that didn't take long... As you can see in the tooltip, those units have exponentially greater strength values than they should. SVN 11385.

Was this a scenario file or a randomly generated map? Did you enter worldbuilder in that game?
Edit: {

Ah, I see it's an earth map scenario, it is probably the trigger for the problem, I've only ever seen the scaled strength issue on maps saved through WB.
Did you change the scenario file through worldbuilder or is it just a scenario that comes with C2C untouched by you?​

}
I see you've modded the game a bit, I'm assuming it is just the thm files and minor xml changes you've played around with; probably nothing that could cause the scaled strength values.